Author Topic: Toluene Test  (Read 4825 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« on: August 09, 2004, 01:11:26 PM »
Well as promised I tested Toluene in my last tank of gas.  I went to get the Toluene and the guy wanted to know what it was for, so I told him it was for my car…  It will strip of car paint?  He said.  No, it is for the fuel tank of my car.  I got a really odd look and he did not ask any more…

I poured gallon of Toluene into 8 gallons of 91.  This created a 92.3 octane mixture.  Noting too extreme, but it should be enough to tell if a gain is to be made.

It took about 8-10 miles of driving to feel anything (I needed to get the mixed fuel into the system) and then it hit me.  The engine settled down, the smell of the car – I had the vents open – was different, and the throttle response was quicker.  As I drove the car for the rest of the weekend, I was looking for additional differences and hopefully gains.

I tool a little trip to Colorado Springs on Sunday and I ran the AC the whole way home.  I noticed that the car did not stumble or have throttle response issues – like it normally does – when I wanted to get into the gas with the AC running.  I attribute this to the Toluene improving the combustion of the fuel and the timing not suffering retard due to pour fuel combustion and the AC sucking power.

I can say, without a doubt that Toluene in the tank makes a sizable difference (even in the low concentration I had) for daily driving.  The power is smoother, the throttle response is not delayed, and the engine as a whole runs quieter and more efficient.

I can not wait to try it on the track in a more robust formula.
 :)
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2004, 01:54:25 PM »
What are the long-term effects of this?
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

Rocky Mountain Club B5

Toluene Test
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2004, 01:54:25 PM »

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2004, 02:00:39 PM »
I will let you know.  I will be filling up with regular 91 today, so I will see if the effects are one-tank long, or if they stick around for a bit.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2004, 02:06:22 PM »
That and will it wreck your engine after X amount of months/years/decades
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2004, 02:09:32 PM »
I have not found there to be any information to that effect.  So far All I have found is good.

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

here is the basis for my test.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

Colorado_Baja

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,672
Toluene Test
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2004, 02:22:38 PM »
I was wondering when this topic was going to come up.  

A budy of mine has an early 90's Talon that he runs 22+PSI on all the time and uses a 30% mixture of Toluene on for daily driveing.That would put his average octane rateing in the high nintys I think.

 I think on the track he uses something like a 45% mix.

Ill have to talk to him about it today.

Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Noob_Shum

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
Toluene Test
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2004, 02:26:10 PM »
A patient of mine who is a mechanic said that ALL gas used to have Toluene in it, not exactly sure why they stopped using it, but his guess is that it is more toxic (can be absorbed into the skin he said?) and something about polution / emissions...  I have no clue if there are any good or bad long term effects, maybe ask on Club B5 (there apparently is some wizzard gal there that knows a lot of about technical chemical stuff like this!).

Jonathan

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2004, 02:32:07 PM »
35% would be arround 100 octane.  Pretty substantial increase.  That would get expensive after a while.

Please let us know what he says about the mixture and the long term effects - if any.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2004, 02:48:18 PM »
If it does have an effect on emissions than probably need to have the car run for a month or so without it or it won't pass. And then there's those random emissions tests the city sets up like police check points.
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2004, 02:51:27 PM »
I do not think it would have any ill effects on your cars emissions.  It is in your gas now, so I do not think it would make you fail the test.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

Colorado_Baja

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,672
Toluene Test
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2004, 02:56:51 PM »
Acctually just got off the phone with him,

Please keep in mind that were talking about 2 diffrent animals here. His Talon TSI is very highly modded, built engine, 19C Garrett ball berring kit ect...

He says that he feels like the engine gets dependent after a while, when he dosent mix it as hot or just puts pump gas in it dosent feel right to him. Not that it dosent run well or any thing like that, but it is deffinately not the same. He says that his puffs some thick black smoke from time to time, but its a DSM and is to be expected.

And he has been running a similar mix for as long as the car has been built, like 2 years now.

Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2004, 03:00:25 PM »
I think the reason it does not feel right is because HE is used to the gain the engine gets from the Toluene and when it is not there he feels it.

I am expecting a similar down fall today myself.

As for the smoke - that could be an effect of long term use or something else...  I have no idea.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

Colorado_Baja

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,672
Toluene Test
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2004, 03:05:19 PM »
I was thinking the same thing, that it is mostly mental.

The smoke is due to the fact that he runs a big turbo set up and its a DSM
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

aowhaus

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889
Toluene Test
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2004, 09:22:22 PM »
damn, I should use this stuff in my coffee!!!
2008 Mercedes Benz C300 4matic Sport
2004 Aprilia Mojito Custom 50

SweetVW

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,677
Toluene Test
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2004, 12:45:18 AM »
Quote from: "aowhaus"
damn, I should use this stuff in my coffee!!!


Triple Shot!!!  8O  :P
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 12:03:07 PM »
now you are talking.  114 octane java would get ya going in the AM!
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Toluene Test
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2004, 12:46:04 PM »
Quote from: "StarlightB5"
Quote from: "aowhaus"
damn, I should use this stuff in my coffee!!!


Triple Shot!!!  8O  :P


Coffee Noob! Tripple is not enough to start a rough day.  I started yesterday with a 6 shot mocha! :evil:  then I looked like that emoticon all day.
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

client_racing

  • n00balicious
  • Posts: 21
REVIVAL!
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2005, 03:33:09 AM »
Reviving the topic since I stumbled across it and it seemed extremely useful [either to use or avoid].  SO! Anyone found what the side effects of mixing toulenewekjlsdkf into your gasoline?  I'd be very curious to know and very anxious to try it out if the risk factor is extremely low.
lient | FERRARA | services

                 -

client | FERRARA | racing

Cole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,035
    • http://rockcrawler.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2005, 01:57:42 PM »
I have gotten similar results. After 2-3 days of driving my Jeep(lots of mods) on 91 octain I realize that it is not running very smooth, poor throttle response, slow acceleration etc.

Before leaving the house in the morning I mix in 100% "Audi Key" in my pocket. The difference is noticable right away. Throttle response is back, smooth acceleration, ah hell....it has acceleration.  :wink:


Okay, to stay back on topic.  How does this compare in price to just mixing in a few gallons of 100 octain fuel? (or higher). There is a 100oct pump about 4 blocks from my office. (about $4.50 per gallon 8O )

Cole Ford
Financial Advisor

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
Toluene Test
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2005, 02:09:28 PM »
Depends on the price of the Tolulene.  I got 3 gals for about $6/gal.  One gallon of Tolulene will do a lot more than one gal of 100 octane.

I forget what the octane rating of tolulene is.  There's a couple of threads on it on CB5.

If I can't get my IAT's low enough this summer, I'm considering running tolulene on a regular basis during the super hot months (July/August in ABQ).  It's a great fuel.
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

Cole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,035
    • http://rockcrawler.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2005, 03:39:12 PM »
I think it is 114 octain.

Cole Ford
Financial Advisor

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Toluene Test
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2005, 03:48:58 PM »
it is 114 oct.

I run it quite often and have not had any side effects - other then better engine performence.

As for the math, I think a gallon of Toulene @ $6 is better then 100 oct @ $4.50.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

Cole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,035
    • http://rockcrawler.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2005, 04:21:04 PM »
That makes 100oct   $0.22 per oct/per gallon and tolulene $0.19 per/oct/gal.


So what about other "additives"  that you will get in the gas versis the tolulene?

Cole Ford
Financial Advisor

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Toluene Test
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2005, 05:07:08 PM »
how about cruising out to the airport and pumping some avgas in there... ;)  :twisted:  (don't really do that! it is still 'leaded')

Here is an article about going the other way (autogas in airplane engines).
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Toluene Test
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2005, 05:20:48 PM »
one more - Here is a really interesting and kinda technical article about octane ratings, different fuels and a bit about diesel engines.
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2005, 11:33:41 PM »
Cole, there's a good article about Toluene in one of the last two European Car mags.  Very detailed discussion.  In summary, it says toluene is good, but is not designed to be added to a car in the form some of us buy it in.  I don't remember specifics, but I do know there are advantages of buying 100 octane instead of toluene.  I'm going to stick with the 100 octane instead of toluene.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

bavarienmotor

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 49
    • http://www.scrperformance.com
Toluene Test
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2005, 08:29:14 PM »
The only long term effects that I have heard of is that the toluene breaks up and makes rubber bushings and seals brittle. If it is true, this only happens when the vehicle has the fluid in the tank for long periods of time.

Don't quote me on this information, I haven't done the research to back this info up and am just posting because this is what I have heard.

If anybody knows for sure, please let me know. We were running toluene at the track last year, and N/A motors really gain from this additive!!
Mike Rieger
SCR Performance
970-203-1127

Chas

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 633
Toluene Test
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2005, 02:11:15 AM »
I've used the T juice on and off for a while. The last track day event I attended I had a whole gallon of it mixed into about 3/4 of a tank of gas. the car ran real well that day a for a few days afterwards. It does work. But ever since I found a gas station near my house that sells 93 octane gas cheaper than most places sell 91, I've been fillimg my tank with that and not messing with the Toluene. Besides the cost in dollars there is the health issues to think about. Toluene is very, very toxic. Don't breath it, touch it or even look at it for too long. It's really bad stuff around human tissues. When I would pour it into my tank I did it out in the street wearing long rubber gloves, goggles and wearing a respirator. Don't take chances with this stuff.

And the reason the people at the paint stores give you a hard time when you go to buy it: some idiots use it to make meth anphetamines. These idiots acctually put this chemical mess into their bodies. Darwin was right.

But once it's safely mixed into your tank it's all good! VRAROOOM!!!!
2003 Audi A6 2.7T
Some Sedans haul families,
this one hauls ASS!

Boris

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Toluene Test
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2005, 12:40:22 PM »
Quote from: "Chas"
I've used the T juice on and off for a while. The last track day event I attended I had a whole gallon of it mixed into about 3/4 of a tank of gas. the car ran real well that day a for a few days afterwards. It does work. But ever since I found a gas station near my house that sells 93 octane gas cheaper than most places sell 91, I've been fillimg my tank with that and not messing with the Toluene. Besides the cost in dollars there is the health issues to think about. Toluene is very, very toxic. Don't breath it, touch it or even look at it for too long. It's really bad stuff around human tissues. When I would pour it into my tank I did it out in the street wearing long rubber gloves, goggles and wearing a respirator. Don't take chances with this stuff.

And the reason the people at the paint stores give you a hard time when you go to buy it: some idiots use it to make meth anphetamines. These idiots acctually put this chemical mess into their bodies. Darwin was right.

But once it's safely mixed into your tank it's all good! VRAROOOM!!!!


Actually toluene is not used to make amphetamines, ether is, but toluene is used by some to get high. Huffing. They inhale it, go figure, at least they have no oil deposits or old paint anywhere in their bodies, that's for sure. ;)

Toluene is a carcinogen but Chas, you can relax a little. You won't get cancer if you get in contact once in a blue moon. So wearing rubber suit aand a gas mask is really not required.
[size=28]REMEMBER!!!![/size]   Where you go, there you are
Living life of crime ain't no fun. It ought to be OUTLAWed!

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
Toluene Test
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2005, 08:04:28 PM »
I would LOVE to have a pic of Chas out there pouring stuff into his gas tank with all that protective gear on - LOL!!!

Better safe than sorry...

I got my quota of Tolulene building plastic models as a kid.  It made me what I am today...

You know, I don't care how many helmets I have, but that "Lightly Modded" moniker bugs the *@^# outta me...
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]