Author Topic: Springs VS. Coilovers  (Read 6900 times)

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coveredbytheblood

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Springs VS. Coilovers
« on: August 30, 2004, 11:23:18 AM »
Hey guys just wanted to see what everyones take on Coilovers VS Springs is.  I am planning on getting the coilovers due to a recomdation, but obviously springs by themselves are considerably cheaper.  I am not trying to go the cheap route with my mods (that is for sure), but I also dont want to throw my money around like some drunk leprachaun.  Think about that, pretty funny....  Here TAKE ME LUCKY CHARMS!!!....  hahahahah ok anyway.  Thanks for all the input.   :P
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DenverPat

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2004, 11:39:40 AM »
How do the springs you're considering getting compare with your stock springs?  If they're significantly lower you should consider getting shocks to go with them.  Lowering your car with springs but keeping the OEM shocks is generally not recommended because the OEM shocks will wear out very quickly.  This is becuase they do not move in their intended operating range.  Factor the cost of new shocks into the equation.
Or, if your car came with springs that are already lower (sport package), you might want to consider Neuspeed Bilstiens and retain the OEM springs.  This is what I did and I've been happy with it.  This is not recommended with non-sport springs, however.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
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Springs VS. Coilovers
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2004, 11:39:40 AM »

KevB

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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 12:48:50 AM »
You don't want to have "too much" suspension.  If you're going to install your coilovers and never touch the ride height, compression, or damping settings then it's not worth the money in my opinion.  You pay a premium for the adjustablility and if you don't use it, why pay for it.
Eibach, H&R, and Autotech Sport Tuning all have matched spring and shock combos.  This is a fool proof way of getting an optimized combo.  You can also mix and match shocks and springs to get the desired drop and ride quality.
evB
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DenverPat

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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 02:23:31 AM »
Well, I'm willing to challenge that point.  I know why you say that, KevB, but here's another way of looking at it.  If you're serious about setting the suspension precisely as you want it, you would buy coilovers, set ride hight, damping, rebound, etc as you want it, then have it corner-balanced and never touch it again.  KevB said, "You pay a premium for the adjustablility and if you don't use it, why pay for it."  In my opinion, you use the adjustability once, and that's to make it exactly what you want it to be.  After that, unless your tastes change, why mess with it?  I know I may be in the minority here, but I prefer not to fuss with something unless I have to.  I don't enjoy working on cars just for the sake of working on cars.  Keep in mind, however, that most people that buy coilovers don't really get the out of them they're capable of since so few are ever set up by a pro and fine-tuned.
I guess my suggestion is to ride in or drive as many different setups as you can, form your own opinion based on your personal preferences, and buy a product from a reputable company.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 04:58:15 PM »
Both of you make very good points thanks.  Lets get to riding!!
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Freeride

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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2004, 05:10:41 PM »
If you get coil overs, it's worth the expense to have the car corner balanced...

You just gotta keep on livin', man. L-I-V-I-N...

coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2004, 05:34:48 PM »
Okay, and that is??
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DenverPat

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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2004, 05:36:56 PM »
Bring it to a specialized race shop.  They'll put your car on four small scales with you sitting in it and ensure each corner weighs the same amount.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2004, 06:03:30 PM »
Ok, and that just stabilizes it?  Or makes sure that all sides are equal.  Ok.  So Pat, you would argue that the extra time and money included in buying the parts, and labor are worth it for the coilovers?
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DenverPat

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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2004, 06:24:32 PM »
You're going to hate my answer, but it depends.  I'm too busy to type it all now, but it you want to talk call me at 720 272 9715.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

KevB

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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2004, 08:27:45 PM »
Adjustability is awesome if you know how to use it.  You can set up the coilovers and leave them, but there are other things that can factor into how the car handles.  And you might need to play with the set up quite a bit before you find one that you like.  If you can't do that yourself, it'll cost quite a bit to have someone do it for you.
I denfinitely agree checking out as many different set-ups as possible before making a decision.  Some coilovers lowest setting may be more harsh of a ride than you want, or springs alone my not give you the overall performance that you're looking for.
I'd also recommend taking your car to the track or an autocross, so you can get an idea of how the stock suspension compares to a modified one.
evB
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hotani

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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2004, 08:56:23 PM »
I was going through the same process and eventually decided on coilovers. I agree with Pat - its worth it to spend the extra money and know you can set them where you want and forget it. Then later if it needs adjusting that option is there.

Also, when looking at spring/shock combos - I wanted the neuspeed bilsteins and H&R sports which priced out over $700. The koni coilovers were $900. So relatively speaking, for a little more I got the option of height and dampening adjustability.

Now this is just hearsay at this point, but coilovers are  usually reported to ride softer than spring/shock combos while maintaining sporty handling. Since I only have my rears on (fronts will be on soon...) I can't contribute much to that - but I will say that with my rears at the highest setting the ride feels like stock - with some reduction in squat. Hopefully with the fronts on I'll still have a somewhat comfy ride with reduction in all the important areas (squat, dive, roll).

HTH

EDIT:
one more thing - I'm extremely neurotic about having an even ride height, and having it exactly where I want it. To me, spending an extra $150 or so to have that peace of mind was a no-brainer. Call me what you want... ;)
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03Indigo

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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2004, 09:18:14 PM »
I got coil overs, had springs before, I agree with Pat...once you get it set where you want, have it conrered balanced, then you don't need to adjust it.  It comes to fine tuning...not always having to adjust it.  Like a piece of art, the more you mess with something, the worse it gets.  Get it where you want it, corner weight the car, they do that at BimmerHaus in Broomfield, and notice how much better the ride and handling are compared to just shocks and springs....once you are set where you want, don't mess with it.  you are paying for the fine tuning, not the "I want to adjust it every week" part of it...

just my opinion

coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2004, 11:07:54 AM »
Sweet. Thanks a lot guys.  I know what it is that I want my car to do.  Just not allways sure, in fact almost never sure what it will take to get it there.  I know that I would probably like all of the above mentioned options.  So if I spend an extra 3-400 dollars so that I can fine tune my ride.  Sounds like I'm spending more money.  Hey KEVB all I know as far as how stock rides compared to others...  is this, anything would be better than how my car rides now.  I have 17's and my car could win a barrel rolling contest.  So, again thanks for all the info the search is getting very fine-tuned and focused.  Soon we will all be laughing about how we used to talk about what we were going to do, and it will be done.  :)  vroOOOM
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2004, 12:10:05 PM »
I get through saying all of what I have said, and then the test  
http://www.autopartsauthority.com/performance/

<SIGH> :?
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03Indigo

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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2004, 01:40:49 PM »
your link goes no where...just an index page

coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2004, 02:48:53 PM »
Well Poop.  sorry about that.  It was of an eibach pro setup that had springs shocks, and sways for around 700 dollars.  Looked pretty decent.  Didnt understand why it was so cheap...
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hotani

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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2004, 02:51:49 PM »
the eibach prosystem is usually pretty cheap, and a good package for passats - maybe not so good for A4s since it drops very low but is still a bit soft which could cause some rubbing issues depending on your wheels and tires.

The eibach prosystem plus is the whole deal - check out shox.com, they usually have pretty good prices too.
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KevB

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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2004, 07:27:57 PM »
Eutotuner did an install and evaluation of a Pro-system on an A4.  They said it felt like the car should have from the factroy, firm, but compliant.  The car still had the stock sway bars on it also at the time of testing.
evB
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2004, 11:02:29 AM »
Kewl.  Coilovers it is.  Now its time to wait.  Thanks for everyones input.
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2004, 11:07:11 AM »
Kewl.  Coilovers it is.  Now its time to wait.  Thanks for everyones input.
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scott

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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2004, 01:35:45 PM »
I own coilovers (H&R) and I have ridden in several cars with Koni, and Bilstein coils too... I personally find that on a daily driver, a GOOD spring and shock combo is the way to go. Not sure if H&R sells a cup kit for the B5, but that is the BEST non-coliover setup I have ever driven. I was absolutely amazed at the handling and the SMOOTHNESS of the ride. Of course, this was in a Corrado, but I have also driven a Mk3 Jetta with a cup kit, and both felt VERY good. The Corrado got my full battery of test too as I was driving it for almost a week.

If that is available I would get it, the price is right and the performance is spectacular!

ColoradoB5

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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2004, 01:20:00 AM »
Well I think it is time I said my piece, if only to offer another perspective.

I have had or driven with the Eibach Prosystem, Bilstein race, Neuspeed springs with Bilstein sport shocks, and my current setup, the KW V2 coilovers.

I'll start with the coilovers.  The reason I bought them was for the winters.  I figured that the ability to adjust the height would be nice in the snow.

I have installed them 4 times now because you have to get the ride dialed in and that means nearly a full uninstall (ok, you can leave the rear springs and perch in...).  So I have come to appreciate coilovers as having a learning curve to get the best no-compromise ride.  I keep a lot of my rubber firmly on the road.  Combined with a good 28mm rear swaybar and I have trouble breaking it lose with my 245's.

It is not a good baby car + I have a 2 month old, so I am going laterally to Bilstein Sports with Neuspeed springs.  Alan (velo) has this setup, which I have driven around SCR and I found it nearly as tight on the track with a much milder road manner.

The Eibach I would describe as 100% stiffer (double-stiff on the butt lateral g meter) than stock, but was a little too loose for the track...just a little.  Yet around town, they reign supreme in sporty comfort.

The Bilstein race I had on my Turbo Rocco, so I know that's comaring oranges to apples, but it had no play at all, so it sits in its own category anyway.  Ha!  I remember there was about an eight of an inch between the wheelwell up front and the tire and they never rubbed.  

So pick your style and go for it.  If you are really into the coilovers, there are a good few different manufacturers that market them.  Othewise, think about what you are happiest with.  That's not assuming budget, but sometimes that's not the main point...

Good luck.

Winston
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2004, 10:36:21 AM »
Coilovers, oooh coilovers....  Where for art though coilovers....  coming soon  heheheheheh
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Babyrs4

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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2004, 04:13:47 PM »
I personally think that it depends on how you drive your car coveredbytheblood. what I mean is that if your audi is mostly for everyday drive than coilover is, I think, unneccessary... for that reason I bought H&R race and Bilstien and I'm pritty happy with it. it'll be great, for the coilover to have all the function to mach your driving skills, style and everything but unless you could be on a track all the time, I think spring and shock set from someone repectable is the way to go.

coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2004, 04:22:15 PM »
Thanks for your input.  Babyrs4.  I actually ended up purchasing H&R coils.  I am very happy with my purchase.  They have made driving my car fun, way fun!  You should come hang out this saturday at the Grand Opening of that car place...  There is a thread somewhere.  Sorry that is all so vague.  HA!  See ya
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Babyrs4

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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2004, 04:47:29 PM »
nice! guess I was too late huh!
an yes I have the whole afternoon open for the grand openning of that car place... guess I'll see you than.

hotani

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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2004, 04:48:07 PM »
good choice on the coilovers! I'm loving mine... trying to decide if I want to lower them a little more or just leave it 'stocky' for winter.

Its a pain to adjust them, but nice to have the option.
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Babyrs4

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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2004, 04:56:37 PM »
NOW I WANT THE COILOVERS!! @#$%&*&%$!! anybody have a deal...??

ColoradoB5

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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2004, 05:13:29 PM »
There are frequently group buys on Clubb5.com, and for most of them, you can either get them for the B5 Passat (& FWD A4) or the A4 Quattro and B5 Passat 4Motion.
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