Author Topic: Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...  (Read 8513 times)

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Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« on: October 11, 2004, 11:29:57 AM »
Ok here is the deal...
I've been searching this forum endlessly to find a solution to my problem. First off, all the posts I've read about surging, hesitation, ect. compare and don't. Seems to be a lot of people have the same problem or a similar problem but no real solution.

The car:
2000 Golf 1.8t AWD
Forge DV, Neuspeed P-Flo, MBC (Ball and spring type installed Between stock N75 and Wastegate)

The problem:
Most noticable time is when cruising and hammer the loud pedal. Car starts to accellerate, starts building boost, then it hiccups. Very brief, quick loss of power. RPMs rise like normal, makes power like normal from 4K up to redline. Sometimes it will do this two and sometimes three times before hitting 4K.

Originally, I thought this only occured between 3000 and 4000 rpm, but I have been testing it and I can get it to do it at a lower rpm. (2500) It's hard to get much boost out of a motor turning 2500 rpm but I managed.

I've run all summer sittin at 14-15psi max boost without any problems what so ever. This is recent.

Car runs rich, even at 15psi, all the way to redline. A/F gauge blips maybe one light leaner after it hiccups. Boost DOESN'T change, runs up to 15psi and holds until 4K then slowly creeps down to 10psi like usual.

I thought it was because I had the mbc set too high, so I dropped it down. Even at 10psi it still happens. It isn't as noticeable since the car isn't as powerful, but it still hiccups.

Things checked:

Alternator checked fine
MAF unplugged - same problem
Fuel filter - replaced - same problem
plugs - copper stock temp - same problem

This is my first dub but not my first car that I've turned up. Loved it since I bought it used with 40K on it. Now at 90K. Any of the 1.8t gurus help is always appreciated.

I don't have a vagcom but if anyone is near Ft. Collins or Loveland and willing to help, let me know.  I'm usually down in Denver most weekends, maybe I could meet up with someone then.

Thanks again.
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Colorado_Baja

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 02:03:26 PM »
Hmmm thats some weird stuff you have going on here.  I have a 2000 GLS AWD 1.8T so I feel your pain.

Here are a couple thoughts that I have on the subject>

Coil packs-- Since your car will hiccup on a consistant basis this probly isant the problem but since the coil packs are recall from VWOA you might as well have them checked out if you havent allready. Also if it were coil packs you would have a check light on the dash most likely.
   
Fuel system-- You said that the fuel filter was replaced, but have you ever cleaned the fuel system? Ill see if I can find the post in just a minuate but, I would recomend puting some fuel system cleaner thru it. Some people prefer a spesfic type of cleaner but I always use what they have at the gas station, usually STP or something like that. This wont be an instant fix, I had to put about 6 bottles or so in their before I really noticed a diffrence, and it was like night and day.

Lastly I would find someone with a VAG and check it just to see whats on their.

Post up if you have any more questions or if I missed any thing, sorry its early for me.

Good luck.

Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 02:03:26 PM »

Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2004, 02:21:02 PM »
Thanks for the reply...

I have run BG 44K through the fuel system.  Just one can though.  Maybe I should try a couple more.
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Colorado_Baja

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2004, 02:30:51 PM »
Quote from: "Chop_Shop"
Thanks for the reply...

I have run BG 44K through the fuel system.  Just one can though.  Maybe I should try a couple more.


44K thats the one that I was trying to think of, like i said i had to run one bottle per tank for about 6 tanks, but it made a huge diffrence for my car.
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

jayryan

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 03:19:23 PM »
I know you have a Forge, but just for giggles and elimination, change out the DV and try it again.
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2004, 03:41:19 PM »
Quote from: "jayryan"
I know you have a Forge, but just for giggles and elimination, change out the DV and try it again.


Just curious where you're headed with this...

If the forge wasn't holding, I would see a loss of boost pressure, which I don't.  Am I missing something?
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jayryan

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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2004, 03:57:21 PM »
You wouldn't necessarily show a loss in boost if it's as minor as your suggesting. When my first TT DV went out, it was just surging, I didn't lose any boost pressure until the surging worsened and occured sooner in the spool up.
Just a thought from my experience.
I agree with Greg though, make sure you also check the plugs and coil packs.
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34k

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2004, 04:06:45 PM »
One possibility for you Greg(sorry, kinda OT here) could be plug gap. The common consensus seems to be to remove .004 per +50HP at the crank. With our chipped cars we should be running .028 instead of the stock .0315

Dunno if you did this, but I haven't. I've noticed just a teeny weenie bit of this sort of hesitation but I haven't squarely narrowed it down to an engine issue or how sensitive the throttle is when on boost It might simply a problem with my toe pressure on the pedal. It's certainly not consistent for me so I usually chalk it up to the driver and I've never noticed it at wide open throttle.

Just a thought.
Andrew

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Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2004, 04:13:33 PM »
The plug gap will be done after work today.  Thanks for the help.  This site is a hell of a lot more helpful than the vortex...

 8O
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34k

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2004, 04:24:00 PM »
Yeah, the MKIV forum on the vortex is... well you know.

So this three Golf GLSs we've got on RMCB5, neat! I'm feeling outnumbered. :)
Andrew

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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2004, 05:23:20 PM »
This info was taken from the 1.8t engine fourm on the Tex,

Quote
For every additional 50HP over stock, a general rule is:
--1 heat range colder
--gap shrinks by .004
So, a chipped 1.8T would make good use ofa plug one range colder gapped to .028

>Stock spark plugs NGK PFR6Q stock gap .032"

--Common replacements
Autolite 3923
Autolite 3922 (one heat range colder)
Denso Iridium IK20
Denso Iridium IK22 (one heat range colder)
Bosch F7LTCR
NGK BKR7E (Race plug, one range colder)
*avoid BKR7E-11 as the factory gap is too large, .042*

Reference: From NGK's FAQ: Spark Plug Gap

"Another consideration that should be taken into account is the extent of any modifications that you may have made to the engine. As an example, when you raise compression or add forced induction (a turbo system, nitrous or supercharger kit) you must reduce the gap (about .004" for every 50 hp you add). However, when you add a high power ignition system (such as those offered by MSD, Crane, Nology) you can open the gap from .002-.005"."

Torque Settings for your plugs

(referenced from the Autolite website)

Thread Diameter......................Aluminum Heads
.................................Pound Feet........Newton Meters
14mm Crush Gasket...15 - 22 lb. ft.........20 - 30 nm



Andy makes an exelent point, im not sure if you should gap down on a stock heat range plug as this refrences gaping down with a cooler heat range. It may be just fine to do but i just havent done the research on it.

I tryed to find this plug Autolite 3922 (one heat range colder) at the local pep boys and they told me that they couldent get it for me. I was busy and havent had a chance to look other places but ya.

Sorry for the huge post.

Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Colorado_Baja

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2004, 06:31:30 PM »
Well I got all the prep cooking that I needed to do done early. Im cooking for my parents freinds tomarow.

Im going to go gap my stock heat range plugs down to .028 (if I can find my plug gapper) and see what happens, hopefully nothing will break. the car is running really well right now.

Edit:
Quote from: "34k"
So this three Golf GLSs we've got on RMCB5, neat! I'm feeling outnumbered. :)

We have allready started a secret Golf club with out you Andy!  :P Just kidding  :lol:  :lol:
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

coveredbytheblood

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2004, 12:48:37 PM »
Yeah, it's called Golfs anonymous.  Hi My name is Andrew.  And I am a Golf owner....
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ColoradoB5

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2004, 01:02:21 PM »
That's interesting about the plug gap for increased horsepower.  I haven't heard that before.  I want to give that a try too.
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Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2004, 01:11:41 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot the introduction...

My name is Dan and I'm well... a golf owner too...

 8)
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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2004, 01:21:59 PM »
Well boys and girls, yesterday afternoon I gaped my stock heat range plugs down to .028 and well. I dont think that it did any harm thats for sure. Only noticeable diffrence is the idle is alot smoother and the tick that my engine has (VW assured me it was normal) is definately not as loud.

So ill chalk it up as a success...


Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

34k

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2004, 01:27:32 PM »
No no, i won't do it! It's a GTI!
:twisted: GTI :twisted:

Get away from that phone. Don't even THINK about an intervention.
Andrew

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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 01:34:15 PM »
Quote from: "34k"
No no, i won't do it! It's a GTI!
:twisted: GTI :twisted:

Get away from that phone. Don't even THINK about an intervention.


Its OK Andy, no one is going to hurt you or you GTI. I supose that we could accept you as one of our own, all that your missing is a bland interior and 2 extra doors. So its kinda like the same thing. Now these B5 kids they are the ones that we need to try and save. 8O  :lol:  LOL
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 01:44:42 PM »
So the plug gap fixed the hiccup?  Or did you not have the similar problem?

I didn't have time after work yesterday to work on it, hopefully today.
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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 01:48:54 PM »
Quote from: "Chop_Shop"
So the plug gap fixed the hiccup?  Or did you not have the similar problem?

I didn't have time after work yesterday to work on it, hopefully today.


Ive never noticed the hiccup that your talking about in my car, the throttle responce on my car is extreamly sensitive. Like if im driveing in third gear and let off the gas, and then just tap it with my toe the car will lurch kind of and then once I apply even pressure it will even it self out. But I dont think thats the same thing that your seeing.

It did smooth out my idle a ton! and quiet it a bit at idle too...
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 01:58:32 PM »
How are you running 21psi?  If I dare ask...

 8O
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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2004, 02:20:07 PM »
REVO software my man. Its fantastic. Let me see if I can find the link that im looking for, Ill edit this post in a second and add it.

In the mean time this is the rest of the crap thats done to my car.
http://rmcb5.com/ftopicp-16916.html
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Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2004, 02:28:08 PM »
Ok here is just about everything that you wanted to know about ECU modification... Again courtsey of the 1.8T fourm FAQ, Vortex.

NOTE: Be sure to check out the links to the respective sites at the bottom of the post for more spesfic info on each company.

And here we go---
Quote
1.Chips- A chip is the most common modifacation for the 1.8t. There are many companies with chips currently out but the 5 biggest are GIAC, APR, Neuspeed, REVO and Upsolute (Those are in no particlar order) I'll try to be as objective as possible here. Each are going to offer a significant power increase and choosing a chip can sometimes be a tough decision so you have to chose what fits your needs. First off try to get a ride in as many different chipped cars as possible so you can get a feel for each chip and its power delivery. I won't say who has the most power cause they are all close but I'll go over the benefits of each. APR has EMCS which basically lets you use your cruise control buttons to switch between different chipped modes, such as stock, chipped, valet, and race. They also have a lockout function, a fault code erase function. APR also has direct port programming as well now which means that the ECU is flashed with the chipped program through the cars on board diagnostic port. They have dealers throghout the country and also offer many other products such as exhausts and turbo upgrades. GIAC also has stock mode, a race program, and regular chipped program. GIAC currently has 2 ways in which they can chip your ECU. They can either install a socketed chip that contains 1 program or they can install a socket that contains multiple programs. IBE chip switch gives the owner of the car the ability to switch between stock, chipped, race, and valet I beleive with a small remote. GIAC has been around a very long time and they also have dealers thruout the country. GIAC also has done the programming for the K04 kit, and will be doing the upcoming Dubwerks turbo kit, so he also has other products out there. Upsolute is a nationwide firm but they do not have dealers through the country, instead they usually have a representative in the state itself who does their chipping. They do not use a socket and instead just reflash your chip with the chip program and resolder it to the board. They offer to return you to stock for dealer visits though. I'm Not positive but I think there is a small fee for this. Upsolute now also has a chip switch program for older 1.8t's and for AWD motor's. Another major chip tuner that has been around since the beginning of the watercooled tuning industry is Neuspeed. They also flash the chip the same way as Upsolute does so if the ECU is opened it's appearence remains stock. Neuspeed currently has chips for all 1.8t model's and they also offer a K04 upgrade for the B5 Passat's, Beetle and AWD Jetta's and Golf's. Neuspeed also is CARB exempt on all of their chips which no other chip manufactorer is. Meaning their chips are totally street legal. This is a big plus for people in states that are very strict when it comes to mods and warranties. REVO is a newer company in the tuning world but they seem to have an execellant product. REVO gives the ability to the cars owner to change settings on a chip if you pruchases their SPS device. This device lets you turn up the boost, advance timing this way you can tune your car for what you are doing. They also offer a program with a 3bar FPR as well as a 4bar FPR which is supposed to make more power. Those devices are optional and you can just purchase a regular chipped program from them if you do not feel comfortable nor have the desire to increase boost or advance timing.
What chiptuners do to your ECU. courtesy of Andy Smith.
http://www.giacusa.com
http://www.goapr.com
http://www.upsolute.com
http://www.neuspeed.com
http://www.revotechnik.com


Again hope this is usefull.

Greg
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

Chop_Shop

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Minor hesitation and I'm stumped...
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2004, 02:38:47 PM »
I've been contemplating the APR Software but just have been able to convince myself to spend the dough.  The MBC was cheap and I manage to convince myself that it's as fast as a chipped car...

 :roll:

How much was your software?  On top of that, I have a second car which should be the money pig being as it's not running yet.
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34k

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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2004, 02:43:54 PM »
Man... that reminds me i need to get an exhaust installed and get that 4bar FPR and upgrade my REVO software.

Andy? When are you going to be around, I wana hear that Milltek exhaust and make some decisions!
Andrew

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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2004, 02:57:13 PM »
Quote from: "34k"
Man... that reminds me i need to get an exhaust installed and get that 4bar FPR and upgrade my REVO software.

Andy? When are you going to be around, I wana hear that Milltek exhaust and make some decisions!


That reminds me, Andy (34K) my manifold and the rest of my intercooler stuff comes today!! yay!! I want to hear the miltek too, I need to make a decision in the neer future as well.

The REVO flash, if you bought it localy will cost you 499 plus tax. then if you want a controller  (I dont have one right now) thats extra bucks. Their are some tuneability benifits that you get with software that you dont get with the MBC.
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

34k

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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2004, 03:03:20 PM »
Greg and I got a deal at Dubs Along the Rockies this summer and got our cars chipped for 20% off so it was something around $400. Should be around $500 retail but Avalon might be running deals durring their opening. Worth every penny, imo.

Suspension is where it's at for our cars tho. You can make it faster, sure, LOTS faster but they aren't dragsters. Now, blasting through twisties, that's a whole bunch more fun! :)
Andrew

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Colorado_Baja

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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2004, 03:16:52 PM »
And breaks too at least some nice pads, stock rotors and calipers are fine in the begining.


I just thought of something Andy, in the begining of MKIV's like 2000 and 2001 they did make a 2 door Golf, but the only engine that you could get it with was TDI and they only came with the GLX interior, leather, roof, heated seats, etc. As far as I know.
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

34k

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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2004, 03:18:19 PM »
Greg, Nice! Is that the side mount DSM ICs? You a crazy kid ;)

Uhhh, my Euro Tails and ECS Dog Mount arrives by UPS today :)
Andrew

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34k

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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2004, 03:25:26 PM »
Yeah, i've seen a couple 2d Golfs around town.

Personally, one of the first things I look at is the tail lights to tell the difference. *hint*hint*
Andrew

Truth has no place in a culture of advertising.
2003 GTI
1992 GTI