UPDATE !!! - Dyno day GTG?

[kraut-sled]

How about a Samich, a knuckel Samich!

Fine a Beer and a pretzel

[Spicoli]

i like the price is right idea.

my guess:
hp: 195
torque: 215


and definately do a cruise afterwords.

[JDawg]

Okay, my guess is 214.5 wheel HP and 216 wheel torque.

[coveredbytheblood]

Umm how about

215 HP
Torque...  Well....How about 234

Is that your           f i n a l answer?

Uh, yeah.   Quit trying to fake me out Reg.

[Spicoli]

we are guessing wheel horsepower right?

[coveredbytheblood]

we are guessing wheel horsepower right?

Time for my stupid question of the day.  I have seen that there are two kinds...  What determines the difference?  Why might HP and HP@wheels be different?

[shummer]

Wishful thinking - I'm hoping for 170 whp on a Tip.

What do you guys think of doing one run in stock mode and two in chipped mode to measure the difference between the two? Any recommendations on the order in which I should do them?

[gragravar]

we are guessing wheel horsepower right?

Time for my stupid question of the day.  I have seen that there are two kinds...  What determines the difference?  Why might HP and HP@wheels be different?

the difference comes from what is known as drive train losses.  Manufacturer hp specs are taken on an engine dyno and measured at the crank.  dyno day results for your car are measured at the wheels.  so the power made by the engine has to go through the clutch, transmission, differentials, axles, and u-joints.  every time there is a part change there is opportunity for friction which will convert power to heat, or slop which will convert power into momentum of something other than the forward motion of the car.

Oh, and to make things more confusing, modern dyno's don't measure hp at the wheels.  they actually measure torque at the wheels, and calculate hp from that.

see here:

http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer/torque_vs_horsepower.html

[34k]

I'd like to go with One Dollar Bob.

My guess,

183 hp
202 ft lb

Okay, difference between Flywheel vs. Wheel HP... I'm guessing someone else will chime in before me, which is good because I bet I get this wrong...

It's basically where the HP is measured.

Measuring it at the flywheel is going to give you a higher number because it doesn't take into account drive train loss or accessories like fans and power steering and big booming stereos (ie. alternator power) etc. It gives you the raw potential output of the engine.

Wheel measurements is when you measure the actual power being put to your drive wheels. This is a real-world sampling of what your car is doing and is far more valuable since it takes into account everything or most everything going on with your car. This number is going to be considerably lower.

It differs between cars, transmissions, rear drivers, front drivers and all wheel drivers as to how much loss but I hear mostly between 20-30% loss of flywheel hp.

The dyno will only measure wheel hp, so that's the number we're all talking here. Hope that helps.

Maybe someone can tell us more specifically how much drive train loss there is on our specific cars?

[coveredbytheblood]

All of these things taken into consideration I am curious where everyone gets thier numbers.  Mainly companies like REVO for instance.  I found my numbers on thier website from their dyno plots.  Are these not accurate?  Or are they measured in a different way than the whp?

[kraut-sled]

I will add peoples guess to the sign-up post in this thread.

[Spicoli]

All of these things taken into consideration I am curious where everyone gets thier numbers.  Mainly companies like REVO for instance.  I found my numbers on thier website from their dyno plots.  Are these not accurate?  Or are they measured in a different way than the whp?

COmpanies talk about flywheel horsepower... which if you took your engine out and also had it at sea level, then you would put out somewhere around there.  Wheel horsepower you lose a certain percent (FWD is the least, RWD is a very close 2nd, AWD has the most loss).  We also live at 5k-6000 ft above sea level.  Even though we have forced induction (turbo), we still have hp and torque loss from the lack of air.

Another thing most companies do, is use 93 octane, since it is the standard at lower elevation.  

Give you an example, I know I am around 200whp (but I don't think quite 200), but if I went to sea level and pulled my engine out, I think I would have about 240hp-250hp at the flywheel.

Does that help?

[kraut-sled]

Maybe I should have my car Dynoed in CA next weekend and see what it pulls at sea level.  Then I can compare it to what it pulls here.

[Spicoli]

Maybe I should have my car Dynoed in CA next weekend and see what it pulls at sea level.  Then I can compare it to what it pulls here.

that woudl be really cool to see.

[Chas]

My guess, 190 WHP and 225 WTQ.

The last time I had a dyno done it showed out to have 178.2 WHP and 226.2 WTQ. That was quite a few mods ago though. We'll see what it has to say for itself on the 26th!

[sediahaka]

I want 1:00!!!!

[tweakeDub]

I want to get 400WHP and about 480 TQ. But that will never happen, and i need to pee so i cant make a good guess anyways

[Cole]

Here are a few things to think about.


The HP measured on the dyno is a raw wheel number. The dyno measures how hard and fast your car can accelerate the dyno rollers.  

This does not directly correspond to usable HP.  After the dyno run you should figure out your power to weight ratio. This is actually a more useful number.

For example a 1,400lb Lotus Elise with 140hp should accelerate the same as a 3,500 Audi S4 with 350hp.  


The other thing to think about. The dyno at MAC is corrected for altitude. So the numbers it gives you will be sea level equivalents.

[34k]

Good info thanks Cole.

So what we should do is roll down to the truck scales in Castle Rock and have our cars weighed after the dyno? See if we can get a group discount, heh.

[Cole]

My guess:

1,000,000 HP and 980,000 TQ
 :wink:


and my buddy might want to come play with us with his C55 AMG Merc. (he is only in the 350hp range :cry: )

[Spicoli]

The dyno at MAC is corrected for altitude. So the numbers it gives you will be sea level equivalents.

corrected... that sucks... is there a way they can set it so it gives you actually hp?  not corrected... i would like to know what my car is actually doing, not what it would do at sea level.

And, does it correct differently for turbo/SC/NA?

[Cole]

I think most of them correct it so that you have "real" numbers that you can compare no matter where you are.

[Chas]

I'm getting all itchy to do this!!!  :lol:  

No more talk, let do it!!!    :lol:    :roll:

[Rusty]

:cry:
I am flat broke and have bald tires - really, truly bald - and the wifey hit a pothole and now I finally need new control arms, too - so there's no way I'm going to make the drive up there.  Yeah, I'm pissed.  But mostly sad, I was really looking forward to it.  So I guess it will be the May GTG before I see you again. :cry:

Randy, please release my slot to someone else. :cry:

Y'all have FUN!!!

[huevon]

edit....nevermind what i typed before.. i only saw the first page...what a dumazz... :oops:

[Spicoli]

Official Time sign-up sheet:

10:00 - Kraut-Sled - I will set the bar :wink: (200HP/215T)
10:30 - 34K (183HP/202T)
11:00 - Madigan
11:30 - Shummer (170HP)
12:00 - Cole
12:30 - Ian Cole - 'tex
1:00 - Sarah in the 337
1:30 - Coveredbytheblood (215HP/234T)
2:00 - JDawg in the W8 (214.5HP/216T)
2:30 - Tweakedub
3:00 - Rusty "I don't need no stinkin' chip" in the CB5-RKT
3:30 - Chas (190HP/225T)
4:00 - Ken Wallace - 719's fastest GLi
4:30
5:00
5:30
6:00
6:30 - Spicoli (195HP/215T)

So here is how the times are going... if you notice I am 2.5 hours behind everyone else.  I have to work that day and just can't make it any sooner that 6pm, and 6 would be pushing it.  With the cruise and dinner, etc if it is easier I can dyno my car another day.  I don't want to have to make people wait around for me.

[Cole]

A buddy of mine in my office wants in. 4:30 I guess will work. He has a c55AMG.

[coveredbytheblood]

Ahem...  Due to the recent input on the dyno and how it works I am now guessing 190 hp.  210 tq.  Yeah.  That should do it.

[jayryan]

Randy, I'm tentatively back in, but at 5pm. I have absolutely no idea what my car will do so I'm not even going to guess. Hopefully I'll be above stock.

[kraut-sled]

Rusty - you break my heart, but I understand.

All the above changes are noted and there are three spots open.  3:00, 5:30 and 6:00.

As for events after, what do we want to do?  I am not sure how many of you are planning on hanging out (I will be there all day) but we can plan to meet later in the evening if that is what people want.