Author Topic: Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo  (Read 3095 times)

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92UrS4

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« on: July 22, 2005, 01:38:13 PM »
I may have missed this being posted before, but I was just doing some googling on B6 passat (for which RMCB5 comes up 4th in the results...woot!) and stumbled on this site:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/VW-Passat

I looked up the Passat and it talks about the various platforms and had some interesting info about the future of the 4motion system:

Quote
The next-generation (B6) Passat was displayed at the Geneva Motor Show in March of 2005. It features a 200 hp 2.0 L turbocharged I4 as the base engine, or a 250 hp 3.2 L VR6 engine as the upgrade. US models will receive a 280 hp 3.6 L VR6 instead of the 3.2 L. Six-speed manual and automatic transmissions are available, and Volkswagen's DSG semi-automatic gearbox is currently an option in European Passats. The new Passat features a return to the transversely mounted engine and no longer shares its platform with the Audi A4. Image File history File links 2006 Passat (B6) File history Legend: (cur) = this is the current file, (del) = delete this old version, (rev) = revert to this old version. ...  Image File history File links 2006 Passat (B6) File history Legend: (cur) = this is the current file, (del) = delete this old version, (rev) = revert to this old version. ...  2006 is a common year starting on Sunday of the Gregorian calendar. ...  The Geneva Salon International de lAuto (or Geneva Motor Show) is an annual auto show held in March. ...  2005 is a common year starting on Saturday of the Gregorian calendar and is the current year. ...  DSG - Wikipedia /**/ @import /skins/monobook/IE50Fixes. ...  2004 Audi A4 Wikimedia Commons has more media related to: Audi A4 See also Audi S4 The Audi A4 is an automobile series made by Volkswagen Group, first sold in 1995 as a 1996 model and replacing the Audi 80. ...

On all-wheel-drive models, the expensive Torsen center differential is lost, being replaced with the less-expensive Haldex multi-plate clutch. This will cause the car to handle more like a 2wd, with understeer and better fuel economy. Unlike the Torsen, which helps avoid loss of traction by using a 50:50 power distribution under normal conditions, the Haldex can only respond after slippage has occurred. It does this with a jolt which may cause the remaining wheels with traction to lose their grip. The Haldex can direct power more unequally that the Torsen, which is limited to 66:34 or 34:66 in the B5 Passat. This may help with extraction from deep sand, although the Passat is far from being an off-road vehicle. Torsen, a contraction of torque-sensing, was invented by an American company called Gleason Corporation. ... A clutch is a subcomponent of an engines transmission designed to allow engagement or disengagement of the engine to the gearbox or whatever apparatus is being driven. ... Understeer, in an automobile, is when the front tires have a loss of traction during a cornering situation, thus, causing the front of the car to head towards the outside of the corner. ...

The new Passat was launched in some parts of Europe in the early part of 2005, shortly after its introduction in the Geneva Motor Show. The North American market can expect to see the Passat sometime August 2005.


If you notice in that snippet the Torsen differential is out in favor of the Haldex. I know Volvo has used Haldex in their AWD system for the XC70. There are some obvious benefits to it but I am also aware that it is even more important to ensure that all wheels and tires are always the same diameter to prefent damage to the system.

I beleieve the quattro setup uses haldex, at least I believe my C5 A6 used it. Another thing to note in the article, the return to transverse mounted engines and the idea that it no longer shares anything with the A4...well except for maybe the 2.0T.

Anyway, the link above has some decent info on the history of the Passat and is a good read, they also have info on the engines of VW and their output and associated models.

PasSoup

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 01:47:29 PM »
200 hp 2.0 L turbocharged I4,  I believe the 2.8 30V in the current B5 is only 195 HP.  The UK site list the 2.0 L base at 140 HP
Jonathon

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 01:47:29 PM »

BHase

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2005, 02:22:13 PM »
Gietl: I'm pretty sure that the quattro systems in the A4, A6, and A8 are Torsen, not Haldex.  My impression was that Haldex was being used mostly on the smallers car, i.e. Audi TT, VW R32, and in Germany, also on the 4Motion Golf and Bora.  Which is better, Torsen or Haldex, is up for debate. From many years on Audiworld, I've gotten a less rosy picture of Haldex, and a more rosy picture of Torsen, than the quote you showed. But I'm not sure personally which is better.

PasSoup: The 2.8 30v engine in the Passat now, and in the A4 from 98-01, is rated at 193 hp, 207 lb/ft of torque.  The 3.0 30v is the next evolution of that engine and is found in 02-05 A4s and A6s. I believe that engine has 227 hp and 235 lb/ft of torque.

My question is why VW has decided to use for the Euro Passat the 250 hp 3.2 VR6 found in the TT, R32, and A3 instead of the Audi-developed (and spawned from the 2.8 and 3.0 30v engines) 255 hp 3.2 30v V6 FSI, which is currently only to be found in the A4 and the A6, and in European A8s.  If they end up using a VR6 engine, it'll show a decided break in the parallel developments of the A4 and the Passat.  While I think the VR6 engines are great, mainly because they can handle a lost of PSI when supercharged or turbocharged, whereas the 30V-evolutions are less sturdy in that respect, I would've loved to have seen VW offer a 6-speed 3.2 30v FSI Passat, as Audi only offers the various forms of automatics in its B7 A4 3.2 FSI.

Ben
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92UrS4

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2005, 02:58:16 PM »
Well the platform for the new Passat is using the transverse mounted engines, this way they can share them between all the platforms. VW has made it clear they want to seperate the link between the makes (VW and Audi).

Now that I think about it, in any AWD system tire pressure and diameters are always important, in a mechanical system like the Quattro (which yeah, I have refreshed my memory and is a Torsen) you can cuase a lot of wear with uneven tire pressure.

I think that there is the possibility for more damage in the Haldex system because if one tire is low it could cause the AWD to engage.  I know the R32 (from some more readings) uses this Haldex system and this may be the "new" system that Haldex announced back in 2002. If it is then it will be superior to their old setup.

I think that the vast majority of Passat owners don't buy the Passat for performance but for transportation so having a part time AWD system like this will be beneficial.  However, for the die hards it's going to make wanting the 2004+ Passat 1.8T w/ 4mo more desireable.

Here is a post from VW UK about the Golf 4Mo and some small details on the Haldex.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/company/press/4MOTION_golf

92UrS4

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2005, 03:01:05 PM »
Ooooh...here is a nice "driving" vide of the new Passat:

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/passat_saloon/driving

s4josh

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2005, 05:21:22 PM »
Haldex is used for several basic reasons:

1. Cheaper
2. Better gas milage
3. Lower emissions
4. Computer controllable
5. Smaller
6. Lighter
7. Configurable layout
8. NO functional problems with tyres having uneven wear, pressure or size (mini spare).
9. NO functional problems when towing with one axle lifted

Check out Haldex's webpage for more info.  Use the menu items on the right to go threw all the technical information.

Haldex website - Technical Information

Quote from Haldex main website:

"In 1998, the Division started serial deliveries to its first customer, the VW-Group. So far the system has been introduced on VW Golf 4 Motion and VW Bora 4 Motion, Audi TT Quattro and Audi A3 Quattro as well as on Skoda and Seat."
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BHase

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2005, 05:38:24 PM »
I'm wondering if there is a reason though that Haldex is only used on the smaller VW/Audi cars, as I stated before.  Why only use it on cars like Golf, Bora, TT, R32, and A3...and have across-the-board Torsen on the larger vehicles, i.e. A4, A6, A8?  Maybe now that it is on the Passat, the new A4s, A6s, and A8s are also Haldex? I hadn't heard of the change.

Secondly, it'd be nice to know some of the disadvantages to having a multi-plate clutch (which Haldex is) rather than a center differential (like Torsen).

Ben
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ColoradoB5

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2005, 07:21:36 PM »
That site is incorrectomundo.

Noteably, the B3 they have listed is the Quantum.

Here's the breakdown of our [some of us] beloved car:

B1 - Dasher, which they list as the B2
B2 - Quantum, which they list as the B3
B3 - Passat, which they lump together with the B4.
B4 - Passat
B5 - Passat
B6 - Passat

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BHase

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Some stuff on the new B6 Passat 4mo
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2005, 07:23:40 PM »
My favorite automotive genealogy is the German version of the Jetta:

Mk. 1: Jetta
Mk. 2: Jetta
Mk. 3: Vento
Mk. 4: Bora

Pick a name and stick with, geesh.

Ben
I'm not an expert in any field but drinking beer and breaking stuff so don't take my response as the best foundation for a conversation." - Jay