Author Topic: NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....  (Read 9194 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Denvernoob

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 169
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« on: April 28, 2005, 02:35:07 AM »
power delivery is much smoother.  These plugs are one step cooler than stock, and the real "gains" can be felt at higher RPM ranges.  Acceleration is more linear, especially in the top end.  I also noticed that in a high boost application like mine, that these plugs allow the boost to hold a bit longer when over 5k RPM.  Not a bad "mod" for $9 and 20 min. of easy install.  

I would suggest these coppers for anyone in a 1.8t.  The NGK BKR6E is a stock temp copper plug, vs. this cooler one.  If not running high boost, this might be a better idea.

I know I will have to change them every 5k, but so be it for the smoothness and boost advantages I've experienced so far!

The only other thing of note, however, is that many on AW have clained these come at "stock" gap in both applications.  Get a gap tool, as 1 of 4 plugs were gapped at .032, the rest were .035-.040.  Not a big deal to fix, obviously, but it seems like it's always a good idea to check.
004.5 QMT6 Ultrasport Loaded
GIAC FX K04 w/ Injectors, K04-15
and about a million other big and little mods!

92UrS4

  • Administrator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,934
    • Rocky Mountain Club B5
Re: NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 02:39:34 AM »
Quote from: "Denvernoob"
The only other thing of note, however, is that many on AW have clained these come at "stock" gap in both applications.  Get a gap tool, as 1 of 4 plugs were gapped at .032, the rest were .035-.040.  Not a big deal to fix, obviously, but it seems like it's always a good idea to check.


This is true for about all plugs.  Always have a gap key because they are usually not gapped exact.

Rocky Mountain Club B5

Re: NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 02:39:34 AM »

shummer

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 925
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2005, 01:57:28 PM »
Is your definition of high boost just anyone w/ a chip (0.8 to 1.1 bar)?

Denvernoob

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 169
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2005, 02:31:33 PM »
Quote from: "shummer"
Is your definition of high boost just anyone w/ a chip (0.8 to 1.1 bar)?


I have hear of lots of tuners using one-step down for regular chips, but the majority just preach copper for that.  The cooler plugs are really talked about by those with injector programs like myself, running peaks of 21-22lbs boost and holding 17-18 lbs.
004.5 QMT6 Ultrasport Loaded
GIAC FX K04 w/ Injectors, K04-15
and about a million other big and little mods!

shummer

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 925
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2005, 02:54:53 PM »
Thanks for the info.

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2005, 05:34:57 PM »
Glad to hear you're happy with the new plugs.
You said, "I would suggest these coppers for anyone in a 1.8t."  I would not.  For a stock 1.8T I would recommend stock plugs.  Additionally, depending on the state of tune, you could go two heat ranges colder, sometimes even three for crazy cars.  I've been using the Bosch F5DP0Rs successfully for a while now.  It is what several tuners recommend for higher HP 1.8Ts.
I'm glad to hear you're happy with what you've got.  That's all that matters.  However, I would hesitate recommending one plug for every 1.8T out there, regardless of tune.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

B5_Alex

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 127
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2005, 07:38:16 PM »
I just got these plugs on Friday from ECS along with a PhatNoise. I am very glad to read this as I am hoping for the same results. I am running GIAC 1.1 bar program and have not changed the plugs in about 15k. The only thing that should be mentioned is that it looks like they will need to be changed on every oil change 6-7k because they are copper. Having said that RockAuto.com sells packs of 10 very cheap, so it's not a big deal.
Another thing that I was trying to acheive with the colder plugs is to lower the oil temps at the top range. (I am not sure if it will have that effect at all but...) I keep freaking out when I see the oil temps creeping around 250, although I am told not to worry. I am currently running AmsOIL 5w-40 with some mixed results. In all honesty for all the hype I am not impressed at all. I get about 2psi lower at idle while warmed up and higher oil temps at full boost compared to the M1 0w-40.
Sorry about getting side tracked I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread. I am glad you are happy with the plugs. I'll install them today and on Friday I am doing a late night run to DIA so I'll let you all know how it goes.

Later

PS I had mine gaped at 0.028 is that right? (0.032 - 0.004 - ATW, 1.1bar)

Denvernoob

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 169
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2005, 08:50:49 PM »
Quote from: "B5_Alex"

PS I had mine gaped at 0.028 is that right? (0.032 - 0.004 - ATW, 1.1bar)


I was told to keep the gap at .032, which isn't to say the method you are using isn't correct.  Where did you hear that method?  Not criticizing, as I don't know, but the AW and AZ forums seem to feel .032 is still good.
004.5 QMT6 Ultrasport Loaded
GIAC FX K04 w/ Injectors, K04-15
and about a million other big and little mods!

B5_Alex

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 127
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2005, 09:04:21 PM »
Chatting with some race techs at the track and reading through Vortex (not the best source I know) and ClubB5.
The general rule seem to be for every +50 hp = one step colder - 0.004 spark plug gap. I figure my chip gives me just about that, so the BKR7E @ 0.028 seem to be about right. I don't know a 100% if that is right because I have not tried it before. But I'll give it a try and will report further.
Here's one thread that I found on the subject: Plug Gap

huevon

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 129
    • http://
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2005, 12:12:25 AM »
the bentley manual suggests .028 for the 1.8t's... that is the only time i heard that being used for a gap.  just my .02

B5_Alex

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Weird
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 01:37:34 AM »
Quote from: "huevon"
the bentley manual suggests .028 for the 1.8t's... that is the only time i heard that being used for a gap.  just my .02


Believe it or not apparently the AEB engine has a different gap spec .... go figure :roll:
Specification
Spark plugs (AEB, 1.8L engine)
Gap 0.70 to 0.90 mm (0.029 to 0.035 in)

Spark plugs (ATW, AWM, 1.8L engine)
Gap 0.80 mm maximum (0.032 in)

Spark Plugs (AFC, ATQ, 2.8L engine)
Gap 0.90 to 1.10 mm (0.035 to 0.043 in)

Spark Plugs (AHA, 2.8L engine)
Gap 1.6 mm (0.063 in)

http://www.bentleypublishers.com/tech/audi/audi.b5.spark.plugs.replace.htm

The old factory plugs I just pulled out of my ATW are also set to 0.028  :roll: and I thought I would be doind something new ... I give up, we'll see how it drives.

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: Weird
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2005, 10:59:38 AM »
Quote from: "B5_Alex"
Believe it or not apparently the AEB engine has a different gap spec .... go figure :roll:
Specification
Spark plugs (AEB, 1.8L engine)
Gap 0.70 to 0.90 mm (0.029 to 0.035 in)


The AEB has different everything. I've been running stock gap on Beru plugs and have been very happy with them.
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

Colorado_Baja

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,672
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2005, 06:30:30 PM »
Quote from: "B5_Alex"
Chatting with some race techs at the track and reading through Vortex (not the best source I know) and ClubB5.
The general rule seem to be for every +50 hp = one step colder - 0.004 spark plug gap. I figure my chip gives me just about that, so the BKR7E @ 0.028 seem to be about right. I don't know a 100% if that is right because I have not tried it before. But I'll give it a try and will report further.
Here's one thread that I found on the subject: Plug Gap


Ill know in about a week or so..
No time for love, Dr. Jones.

Losers make excuses. Winners make it happen.

"and function, FUNCITON is the key" 
Fugazi

B5_Alex

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Update
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 02:24:50 PM »
As promised here's an update for the NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs. I experienced very simillar results to Denvernoob. More linear power curve, up to 2psi higher boost and longer spike hold. An added benefit seem to be lower oil temperatures as well. According to my guage the oil temps now hover around 220F during normal operating conditions and stay under 240 F during hard runs up the hill. Before I was often seeing 250 F during high speed climbs.
I am very pleased with the results!!!

Alex

PS. I am not sure if there are any benefits to running 0.028 plug gap, but there are no negative side effects and since the plugs that I pulled out had the same gap I plan on keeping it like that.

b5ramman

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 25
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2005, 01:50:35 PM »
I've seen similar results with mine- great plugs.
Sean

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2005, 02:23:56 PM »
Quote from: "DenverPat"
Glad to hear you're happy with the new plugs.
You said, "I would suggest these coppers for anyone in a 1.8t."  I would not.  For a stock 1.8T I would recommend stock plugs.  Additionally, depending on the state of tune, you could go two heat ranges colder, sometimes even three for crazy cars.  I've been using the Bosch F5DP0Rs successfully for a while now.  It is what several tuners recommend for higher HP 1.8Ts.
I'm glad to hear you're happy with what you've got.  That's all that matters.  However, I would hesitate recommending one plug for every 1.8T out there, regardless of tune.
Pat, is the F5DP0R a triple-electrode plug?  Triple-electrode plugs are stock on AEB's - I've tried single-electrodes and they just don't work.  The best plug that's worked for me so far is the F6DTC, which is one heat range colder than the F7LTCR, but they (F6DTC) are so hard to find. I just recently ordered some from rockauto.com but they screwed the order up so bad that after waiting for two weeks, only to find out they were out-of-stock, I canceled the order. I'm about to receive a set of one-heat-range colder cheapie triple-electrode Densos from sparkplugs.com - the K22PBR-S.  I have used the stnd heat range K20PBR-S10 with good results except it was too hot.  At $2 each, that's pretty good, but I'm still in search of the perfect plug that's not hard-to-get.
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2005, 02:29:37 PM »
Rusty~
The F5DPOR is a single electrode plug.  I think they're one heat range colder than stock.  The best price i've see on them is about $12 each.  This is one single-electrode plug that you've seen in action working on the AEB.  I think you'll agree it does the job just fine. 8)
BTW, I'm getting the new springs on in about three weeks.  That with the r-comps should shave another 1.5 to 2 seconds per lap.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2005, 08:18:44 PM »
Quote from: "DenverPat"
Rusty~
The F5DPOR is a single electrode plug.  I think they're one heat range colder than stock.  The best price i've see on them is about $12 each.  This is one single-electrode plug that you've seen in action working on the AEB.  I think you'll agree it does the job just fine. 8)
BTW, I'm getting the new springs on in about three weeks.  That with the r-comps should shave another 1.5 to 2 seconds per lap.

Thanks, Pat. I'll have to agree that it does indeed seem to do the job just fine. *thumbs up* Dang, your car runs good.
Hard to believe the single-electrode does the job, but then my engine is a bit peculiar...*grin* I think I'll stick with the triple-electrodes, especially at  8O
$12 a plug???
For only one electrode?!??!?! What a ripoff - what are they made of, Kryptonite or something?!?!? - LOL *grin*
Don't know about the Audi AEB, but the vdub AEB is a 7 stock heatrange, so a 5 is two steps colder.  Chas uses the aforementioned F6DTC's.

BTW Bosch and American plugs are colder with smaller numbers.
Japanese plugs are hotter with smaller numbers.

I may just try a two-range-colder-than-stock plug.  Worst it could do is foul.  Best it could do is offset the too-advanced-for-high-boost timing of my stock ECU. 8O

*edit* That's exactly what Rusty will do.  Rusty will buy himself a set of two-range-colder plugs for his birthday!  Rusty will be 47 this Friday - woo-hoo!!!  Been wondering what Rusty could do special for himself, besides changing the oil and tranny fluid... (boy, is Rusty a car geek or what?!?!?)
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2005, 08:44:57 PM »
Yeah, and the "normal" price is around $20 per plug.  I know it's not cheap, but how much has everyone put into their cars to this point?  To have the right plug in there for an extra $30 is a drop in the bucket, especially for the long life.
I see it like brake pads.  Yeah, some cost twice or three times the amount of others.  But, for that extra $100 in upgraded pads your braking performance is dramatically improved.  how else can you spend $100 to improve your car's overall performance so much?  I can' think of any.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2005, 01:09:45 PM »
Quote from: "DenverPat"
Yeah, and the "normal" price is around $20 per plug.  I know it's not cheap, but how much has everyone put into their cars to this point?  To have the right plug in there for an extra $30 is a drop in the bucket, especially for the long life....

Yeah, and your wife hasn't driven you into bankruptcy. *tongue out*

And, as they say in racin' circles, "Diff'rent plugs for diff'rent thugs..." *grin*
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

TurboDub

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2005, 01:42:23 PM »
I have an stock (8O) AEB. And I need to change my plugs- most likely this weekend. Anyone know where I can get the F5DPOR's locally for a good price?

Thanks in advance...
09 DSG GTI
05 Subaru Legacy GT

s4josh

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2005, 01:51:11 PM »
Has anyone tried those new Bosch Platnium +2 or +4 plugs that don't have the hook electrode, but two or four side electrodes?  

They look like plugs you pull out of F1 or Indy car engine.  Mazda Rotory engines have always used plugs that look like that with the side electrodes.  Its very Intresting to me.  Its Bosch so it can't be bad can it?
Josh Ver 2.0

2011 VW Jetta 2.5 SE DSG
2009 VW Jetta TDI 6sp man
2006 VW MkV GTI DSG w/LC
2005 VW Passat Wagon TDI-PD
2003 VW Jetta TDI-PD
2001 Audi B5.5 S4 6sp man

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2005, 01:56:28 PM »
If you're stock you don't want F5DPORs.  Your car will run worse than with stock plugs.  That said, I'm not sure where to get 'em.  Champagne normally has them, but they're at the hill climb.

If I were in your shoes, I would get the plugs that came with your car.  I think VW probably knows what plugs work best with the stock engine since they disigned it.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

TurboDub

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2005, 02:35:34 PM »
Quote from: "s4josh"
Has anyone tried those new Bosch Platnium +2 or +4 plugs that don't have the hook electrode, but two or four side electrodes?  

They look like plugs you pull out of F1 or Indy car engine.  Mazda Rotory engines have always used plugs that look like that with the side electrodes.  Its very Intresting to me.  Its Bosch so it can't be bad can it?


My AEB is stock for now, but I may get a 1 bar chip installed real soon. I guess I'll wait until then to get plugs...Thanks Pat

My buddy that worked at bosch in Germany got me the platinum 4s when they were first introduced over there for my Probe GT. I was so psyched to get them, but I really didn't notice too much of a difference.

I also used to have an rx-7. It used these NGK's that had no hook on the end of it at all. It was funny when I took the first one out, I thought the end had broken off!  8O

http://63.150.115.104/CommerceGateway/pictures/Mazda%20J-Pegs%5CBUR7EQP.jpg

At the time they were like 30 bucks a piece...
09 DSG GTI
05 Subaru Legacy GT

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2005, 02:40:20 PM »
Sounds good, TurboDub.  FWIW, even with a chip many tuners will tell you stock plugs work best.  If I were stock, planned on getting a chip soon and thought I could use some new plugs, I wouldn't wait to get the chip, as I would use the same plugs anyway.  Just my $0.02
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

TurboDub

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2005, 07:27:57 PM »
Cool I'll just get the stockies then. Thanks again.
09 DSG GTI
05 Subaru Legacy GT

Rusty

  • Lightly Modded
  • **
  • Posts: 354
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2005, 12:12:16 AM »
OK.  Damn.  Well, as they say in Russia - toshitsky.

Bosch makes an F5DTC.   But I can't find anywhere to buy it.

Looked at the F5DPOR - true, it is a single-electrode plug, but it is also a side-electrode plug.  So I think it just might be the ticket.  Dear, sweet Mom gave me a $47 check for my birthday - one dollar for each year. Bless her heart.  That'll be perfect - found them at autohausaz.com for $11.83 each.  Pat, can you suggest any better place to buy them?

For anyone that's curious:

F = seat and thread = M14x1.25
5 = heat range
D = 19mm thread length
nothing = single-electrode
P = Platinum
O = ?
R = Bum-off resistor (that sounds kinky)

F
6
D
T = triple-electrode
C = Copper

F
7
L = 19mm thread w/ extended-tip electrode
T
C
R

Here's the code chart if anyone's interested:
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/TechnicalResourceLibrary/
click on "Spark Plug Designation Codes"

Of all the dang spark plug threads throughout the history of ClubB5 and its spawn, this one has been the most productive for me.  Thanks, Denvernoob, for starting it, and thanks Pat, for sharing your info.  *HBTM* (Happy Birthday To Me)

*grin*
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

DenverPat

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,560
    • http://www.stonefieldinvestments.com
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2005, 01:01:50 AM »
Wow, this is the most productive one?  That's great to hear!
Get the plugs there.  Very good price.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

BHase

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2005, 03:21:16 AM »
I go quadruple platinum, y'all!!! Holla!!!

Literally. I love my Bosch Platinum +4's.  But I'm running 2.8 30v too.

Ben
I'm not an expert in any field but drinking beer and breaking stuff so don't take my response as the best foundation for a conversation." - Jay

SivNiz

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • http://
NGK BKR7E Copper Plugs installed(not a big mod)but....
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2005, 10:06:54 PM »
I need a plug that is 1-2 ranges colder than the stock plugs (F7LTCR) for a 30v v6 SC application.  Can anyone recommend anything?