My GRM 2006 Challenge build-up

[s4josh]

That will be sweet

[PasSoup]

If you make it I'll go and watch.

[ianacole]

If you make it I'll go and watch.

I'll let you know...It will be the end of October next year in Gainsville.

Tear down should be commencing soon...I'm itching to take something apart.

[gragravar]

yeah, that engine looks like a better option for you than this find:

RS6 Motor intact except for

Broken Cam Gear (as seen in pic as missing)
Bent Valves on Driver Side Cylinder Head (seen as head missing cam gear)
Broken Alternator Bracket/Oil Cooler
Borken Front Timming Cover

Plus you have a fair amount of freight...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Auid-RS6-V8-Twin-Turbo-Engine_W0QQitemZ4590459965QQcategoryZ102320QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[ianacole]

yeah, that engine looks like a better option for you than this find:

RS6 Motor intact except for

Broken Cam Gear (as seen in pic as missing)
Bent Valves on Driver Side Cylinder Head (seen as head missing cam gear)
Broken Alternator Bracket/Oil Cooler
Borken Front Timming Cover

Plus you have a fair amount of freight...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Auid-RS6-V8-Twin-Turbo-Engine_W0QQitemZ4590459965QQcategoryZ102320QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And it would completely blow my budget...but could you imagine that engine in something as light as a Rabbit?!  Would probably tear it up...

[s4josh]

Are you going to remove the stock engine from the front of the car? If you do you should move/relocate everything you can forward of the front axel and mount it as low as posiable.  Don't mount the gas tank to far forward though maybe right over the front axel would be good.  Wouldn't want to see you burn up in a blazing flame of glory!

[ianacole]

The rabbit has no engine currently.  With the placement of the V6 in the rear, it's going to be more mid-engine than anything.  You're right though...I'm concerned about having enough weight up front to keep it handling well.  Fire would not be good...

[s4josh]

That engine is on a transaxel and its fuel injected, so you could try to mount it tipped in towards the back of the seat about 15-20 degrees or so to help move the weight inward between the front and rear axels and lower the center of gravity a little.  You will have to look at where the oil pump pickup is at in the oil pan and maybe mod the pickup, baffle, and oil pan to handle the tilted motor other than that it shouldn't hurt anything to tilt the motor.

[gragravar]

remember that wing that started this whole discussion.  you could always mount that up high over the hood for some weight and downforce in the front.  

now, that would be funny to see.  

 8O

[ianacole]

remember that wing that started this whole discussion.  you could always mount that up high over the hood for some weight and downforce in the front.  

now, that would be funny to see.  

 8O

I actually did think about that...but I may not be able to see over it LOL.  I have about 36" from the centerline of the rear axle to the back of the seat.  I may be able to make up some room by moving the motor back an inch or two...shouldn't bind the axles too bad.  My biggest concern right now is heat...how much heat is that thing going to generate on the seat back.  Also, I'm going to have to come up with some sort of firewall.

[gragravar]

you could also go the other direction, mount the motor up front, but behind the axles, and just move the firewall rearward, and then drive from the back seat.  for that matter you could get in through the back hatch too.

[s4josh]

I would use a decent gauge sheetmeat (10-16) for the firewall, because heat and fire are not your only concern.  If the trans or engine has some type of cytostrophic failure you don't want any parts intrusion into the passenger compartment.

The heat shield is easy, you just use an air gap.  Use steel sheet metal (16 gauge) for the engine compartment structure then use aluminized steel sheet metal (24-30 gauge) for the heatshield.  Just buy some 1/4" thin-wall steel pipe and 1/8"-3/16" x 3/4"-1" bolts/nuts/washers from Home Depot/Lowes/etc.  Cut the pipe into 1/2" lengths creating a spacer and drill holes in both the firewall and heatshield, and connect the two peices with the bolts.  It shouldn't rattle at all; if you have them tight and spaced correctly, you may want to use locking washers, so they dont come lose.  There are other ways of doing it, but thats a pretty simple and cheap way.  You will need to find a local metal supplier to get the lower gauge and larger pieces of sheet metal for the firewall.

I would also put a piece of 1/4" peice of lexan above the firewall and bolt it in.  that will help a little with the noise and give you some additional protection.  You could also use 1/8" lexan sheet, it would be cheaper.  You can make some L beams from the 16 gauge sheet metal drill holes in one side of the L beam every 6" or so and spot weld a beam on the back of each B pillar and the roof above the firewall then bolt the lexan shield into the L beams and the firewall.

[s4josh]

I would gladly come over and help you on some Sunday afternoon's if you like some help.  I don't have a lot of time outside of Sunday's, but I would like to help if you want some?

[ianacole]

I would love the help!  I haven't started tearing down the Bonneville yet...I haven't been home and it's been too cold (it's sitting outside in the driveway).  But, I plan on having everything out of the bonneville by the end of December.  I'm taking motor and tranny, front subframe and all attached components, radiator (I'll mount this in the front of the rabbit, assuming I can run hose from there) and fan, ECU, harness, shifter and cable (although I may not be able to use the cable), and then all the assosiated electronics (coil, etc).

I really like your idea of the firewall.  That should be fairly simple to build.  I had thought about the danger of something shooting out the side of the motor...I really would not like to have a piston in the back of my head.  I was planning on the Lexan, although it had been plexiglass in my mind.  Any idea where I could find this?

[DenverPat]

Try calling Plasticare for the Lexan.  Not sure if they sell it, but I would guess so.  If not, I'm sure they could point you in the right direction.
4211 S Natches Ct
Englewood, CO 80110
(303) 781-1171

[ianacole]

^^^ AWESOME!!! Thanks!!

[s4josh]

Heres a place online US Plastics - Lexan sheets.

You should do some messurements of where about you want the firewall height wise because you might be able to get away with a 24" by 48" ($71.05) sheet of instead of a 48" x 96" ($236.61) sheet of 1/4".

A good idea would be to replace all the windows minus the front windshield with Lexan because its 16 times lighter than glass and 3 times light then Acrylic.  You could use 1/8" for all side and rear windows.  A 4' x 8' sheet of 1/8" Lexan is $135.09, two sheets would prolly get all the side and rear windows.

[RobD]

As for sheet metal.....I could probably come up with a few helpful pieces.  I sell sheet metal for a company called Metalwest.  All we do is sheet metal.  Aluminized is not a regular off the shelf item.  It's typically used is ovens and tends to be contract specific.    As for standard carbon steel in 10 thru 20 guage not a problem.  We stock light gauge(26-30) galvaized but we also stock thin aluminum (.020 & .025).  I'm pretty sure I could come up with what you need to get the firewall constructed.

You might try a place called Regal plastics.  I think they bought out Cadillac plastics about 4-5 yrs ago and I'm pretty sure they carried lexan.  You might inquiry about remnant sheets(drops from other cuts out of stock sheets) as most places are willing to sell that stuff at a discount.

My cell phone is 303-885-7682 if you want to call and ask a few questions.
This week I'm in Alb NM so I'll be in and out from the phone. (playing golf tomorrow afternoon!)

Rob

[s4josh]

What type of welder/welding equipment do you have?  MIG, TIG, Acetylene torch, Palsma?

[ianacole]

Rob...That's awesome!!  Thank you very much!!  You will definitely be getting a call from me.

Josh - MIG.

[s4josh]

I am going to get one of those solar auto dimming welding masks for chrismas and I am ordering some new welding gloves and a apron from weldingdepot.com  :twisted:

[ianacole]

I'll have to check them out.  I just have the hand-held mask that came in the kit, and it's really annoying.  I've been looking for a full, auto-dimming helmet.  Are you up for giving some instruction in welding?  I've been hacking at it a little bit, but could definitely use some tutelage.

[s4josh]

Well I took welding class for two years in high school and went to techinical school for one year to become a machinist and have built a few dune buggies, a couple roll cages and some other smaller welding projects, but the last time I really did any welding was about 8 years ago, so I will have to get back into it.

Do you have a drill press, hand held drill (up to 1500-2000 rpm), angle grinder, and a bench grinder?   You will need a hook and pick set, steel brushes, and some MIG anti-splatter spray; if you don't have them already.

You will prolly need an Oxy-Acetylene torch for this project.  Gas-welding sheet metal make much nicer and cleaner welds.  They make it easier to cut parts out and cut parts off.  We could build a custom baffeled fuel tank for the front of the car with one.

Check out this website WeldingDepot

[ianacole]

Do you have a drill press, hand held drill (up to 1500-2000 rpm), angle grinder, and a bench grinder?   You will need a hook and pick set, steel brushes, and some MIG anti-splatter spray; if you don't have them already.

I do have the press, drills, and grinders.  I have some heavy duty wire brushes, and the spikey hammer thingy.  I don't have the anti-spatter spray - I've never heard of it.

You will prolly need an Oxy-Acetylene torch for this project.  Gas-welding sheet metal make much nicer and cleaner welds.  They make it easier to cut parts out and cut parts off.  We could build a custom baffeled fuel tank for the front of the car with one.

I have this welder:

Lincoln Electric
Weld Pak 3200HD Wire Feed Welder
Model K2190-1

Got some serious welding chores? Then you're going to want a serious welder. Lincoln Electric's Weld-Pak 3200HD handles a huge spectrum of flux-cored or MIG welding jobs -- from auto-body repairs to farm fixes to around the home chores. You just can't buy a 120V welder with a more versatile range! The Weld-Pak 3200HD comes ready to weld mild steel with self-shielded flux-cored wire right out of the box. Also included is virtually everything you need to MIG weld mild steel. Just add a cylinder of shielding gas. Rounding out the package is a welding handshield, instructional video and undercarriage. The convenient mild steel procedure chart inside the wire access door guides you to all the appropriate welder settings for the job at hand. The Weld-Pak 3200HD has a 25-135 amp output and welds up to 5/16 In. steel using flux-cored wire. The unit plugs into a 120V (20 amp) outlet. It comes with a 3 year warranty on parts and labor (90 days warranty on gun and cable).

•     Welds up to 5/16 In. steel
•     Output range 25-135 Amps DC
•     3-year warranty parts and labor (90 days gun and cable assembly)
•     Input voltage: 115 Volts

Store SKU # 599867
Internet # 166038
Catalog # 100093231

Check out this website WeldingDepot

Cool site!  Good prices on helmets.

[s4josh]

Very cool welder!  Flux core wire saves time and cleanup.  Lincoln's are good welders.

MIG Anti-splatter spray and gels just protect the surface you are welding on from the molten metal being throw from the arc.  Say your welding a car body panel you wouldn't flying molten metal bonding to the body panels surface, so you spray it on around that area to protect it.

[Rusty]

Kudos to you for this project!  If we were in the same city, I'd be all over this to help you out.  I'm pretty good with a wrench...

*bow*

[ianacole]

I wish you were, too.  I have a feeling that I am going to need all the help I can get.

I was hoping to start pulling parts from the Bonnie this weekend, but I have a coolant leak in the GTI that I need to track down.

[s4josh]

Well I have my new auto-dimming welding helm and i am now just waiting on my welding gloves and apron to arrive next week

You still doing this and need some help Ian?

[ianacole]

I am and I would love some.  I'm beginning the tear down of the Bonneville the 28th of this month (Saturday) and hope to have it done by Sunday.  The running idea is that we'll pull everything from the front end, except the motor and tranny, use a couple of 1x1 box steel and weld them across the front frame rails to begin the box for the engine.  I hope to have this all done this weekend.  If you want to come over and help wrench (and do some light welding), I'd sure appreciate the help.

[s4josh]

I wouldn't be able to help on Saturday 28th, but I could come over and on the Sunday 29th around 10 am or later?