Author Topic: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die  (Read 5721 times)

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Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« on: November 08, 2005, 08:30:16 PM »
Finally got my hands on a 1987 Mk2 GTI.  I was just casually talking to a friend on Aim from Greenville, and told him I was looking for a GTI, and had some plans for it.  Well, he said that his dad had one thats been sitting under a car cover in their driveway for 4-5 years.  Why has it been sitting?  No money to get the timing belt and a new head.  5 years, huh?

Well I made the offer to buy it, and his dad accepted.  Last Tuesday 11/1 I drove up to take a look at the car to be sure it's what I wanted.  Knowing it wasnt running, I still wanted to buy it.  It needs new tires, maybe new brakes, new bushings all around, suspension items, head rebuilt, and a few other things.  All in all, the car has very small amounts of rust.  Battery tray is rusted, and the roof and hood both have surface rust.  Nothing a little sanding and some primer can't fix.

So, on Sunday 11/6 me and a friend drove up and towed it back to Charleston.  7 hours later, and $500 poorer, the GTI is home, and Project Racer is under way.  With this project, I plan to do about 75% of the work myself.  The machining, rebuilding of the block/transmission in the 1.8L will be left to the pros.  So on with some more plans and pictures below.

Direction for the '87 GTI:
Drop in a 2.0L 16 Valve - port and polish head
Lower the compression to be able to handle boost
Install a BBM Lysholm Supercharger kit, willing to handled 10+ psi
Peloquin LSD differential
H&R Cup Kit
Polyurethane motor mounts, control arms bushings, and shock bushings
Single round, badgeless grille conversion
Install some type of roll cage
Repaint whole car original color (some blue pearl) or Indigo Blue Pearl
Wheels are unknown at this point.

That about covers most of the items for now.  As things progress, the list will become longer.  This project will take atleast 1-2 years to complete, but I'd like it to be on the road by spring time, '06 so I can begin keeping the miles down on the GLI.

So, on with some of the pictures...





Cleaned the interior of all bugs, crusty chips, McD's wrappers, you name it...


Broken grille, so it came off today until the single rounds are in.


Seats are in amazingly good condition for 200k miles and being as old as it is.


Still in the process of cleaning the dash and other misc peices here


Cleaned rear parcel shelf, looking forward to the dash.


Misc box of parts, belts, body moldings, and floor mats


Engine before its cleanup process.


Mysterios use of a Coke bottle as a upside down catch can.


Foglight Wiring mess, out that went.


Bugs and debris on the airbox boot.


That was all Monday's work.  I'll be posting today's pictures soon.

givebloodplayhockey

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 09:00:52 PM »
Steve, that is sweet! sounds like you're going to have a real rocket when done! Wish I was closer to spend a day or two helping you turn some wrenches! Oh well, keep us posted!

P.S. Wheels aren't on... yet. Waiting for the springs to get into Randy at Autobahn. As soon as they're in I'm putting the MM's on. Will take pics.
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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 09:00:52 PM »

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2005, 09:03:00 PM »
Alright, so in with today's pictures.

First thing was to finish cleaning the interior.  I've not yet tackled the door cards, but those shouldnt take too long, being they are pretty flat surfaces.  Now, keep in mind, the car filled with 5 year old pretzles, bank reciepts from '95 and 96, McDonalds ice cream cone wrappers, straws, straw wrappers, chips, napkins, rusted paper clips, rusted staples, gooey rubber bands, rusted nuts and bolts, and tons of other unknown things.  The ShopVac was full of stuff after one day of cleaning (as seen in the first post).

I also adjsuted the parking brake cables, as things were pretty loose.  I cleaned out the seat tracks, and lubricated with fresh lithium grease.  I reinstalled the seats, and tightened everything down.  They slide like brand new seats, its amazing.  I finished cleaning up the gauge cluster bezel, reinstalled the HVAC controls, and bolted everything up.

On to the engine bay, where to start...  Started by removing the foglight harness, and since I'll be converting to the single rounds, I dont need any of the misc wiring mess anymore.  Next came the battery tray.  Finished cleaning the rust all up, along with the Coke bottle "catch can" and a few other make-shift items.  It all came down to sucking the dead bugs up, spider webs, rat and roach terds, bug casings, etc.  Whatever you find in a 5 year old car thats been sitting, thats what was there.  

That's the gist of the progress for today.  Hopefully this evening or tomorrow I can begin to disassemble the engine and pull the head to check the damage.

On with the pictures:














Enjoy, and thanks for looking.

Steve

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2005, 09:07:57 PM »
Quote from: "givebloodplayhockey"
Steve, that is sweet! sounds like you're going to have a real rocket when done! Wish I was closer to spend a day or two helping you turn some wrenches! Oh well, keep us posted!


Thanks man, its going to be alot of fun doing this project.  Most of the local guys here in town have some cars to work on, and I wanted one for myself.  We have things from an old school air cooled Beetle, a Mk1 Scirocco, a Mk2 Scirocco, and now 2 Mk2 GTI's.  Its all going to be fun to have "Beater Wars" at the track once we all get things up and running.

The engine and trans is going to take time to get done, but once the 2.0 is in the car, I'll begin to make plans for the Lysholm.  With 225hp or so at the crank, in such a light car, it's really going to kick some butt.  Wether it be at a track, or as a highway cruiser, its going to have some balls.   :lol:

I cant wait.   :twisted:

scott

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 02:01:06 AM »
I have to ask this... have you ever driven a car wth a Lysholm? That whine would make me want to MURDER someone after about 10 miles. Why not go with a turbo? It is equal work, and it is "scalable" as your need for powa goes up.

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 10:13:16 AM »
Yes I have.  A friend of mine has a '90 G60 Lysholm.  The sound reminds me of a power steering pump thats about to explode, but worse.  IMO, you see turbos everywhere in alot of projects.  But how often do you see a Lysholm charger being used?  All of my past, and current cars are turbo, so I'd like to try something different (Passat, and GLI) with the GTI.  There's just something about that sound that is so enjoyable to me.

And this is going to be a full out daily driver either.  It will for a while before the engine work goes under way, but once its near its completion, it will be a autocross and track car.  Something I can race around in.  So, having a 'little' whine isnt a big deal.   :lol:

s4josh

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2005, 01:07:18 PM »
I think that will be sweet with the supercharger and the whine just means you got mojo :D  

Superchargers are alot more fun from the drivability side of things, instant torque is a good thing.
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Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2005, 08:36:04 PM »
Quote from: "s4josh"
Superchargers are alot more fun from the drivability side of things, instant torque is a good thing.


That's my thinking.  Ive riden in a G60 Corrado with the Lysholm, and the torque at any rpm is really enjoyable.  I love being pinned back in the seat, and with the 2.0L and the Lysholm will really make things fun.

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2005, 03:40:21 AM »
After 3 evenings of working, I finally was able to get the head off.  Last night I got the manifold bolts out, and then worked on getting some of the misc coolant hoses removed from the block, firewall, and head.  After a while this evening of pulling the spark plugs, and getting things ready, it came off with some slight aggression.

Here's what I was looking at once I pulled the head tonight:

Got Carbon?


Notice the oil in the #2 cylinder.  The spark plug hole was filled with oil, badly, which made its way into the combustion chamber.


Anyone have some cleaning supplies I could borrow?  :rofl:


Oil buildup on the intake diaphram, going to need lots of cleaning.


Enjoy,
Steve

SweetVW

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2005, 01:58:29 PM »
Looks like a great project.  I always thought it would be fun to rebuild a car.  I remember when I was a kid, watching a neighbor rebuilding a MG.  I remember thinking that he must be a genius to be able to do that.  I will have to live vicariously through your exploits and pictures.  I wish you luck and look forward to any updates.
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2005, 05:24:06 PM »
A great project it is.  The whole weekend I worked on getting the head all cleaned up to see what I have to work with.  After 2 days of cleaning I finally decided to drop the head off at a machine shop to get looked at.  They are going to port and polish the head, do a 3-angle valve job, gasket match the ports, and clean everything up.  I cant wait to see what it all looks like.

Here's some pictures of the head after the cleaning.





Cam bearings and such will need some good cleaning.


Exhaust ports still need some work.





Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2005, 10:24:55 AM »
Did a little more research last night on some forced induction.  Its going to be a little more involved then I had originally thought, but its all going to be worth it, I feel.  Once I get everything all up and running, then I will start working on collecting misc parts from a Corrado G60.  I will need a wiring harness, G60 charger brackets, throttle body, ISV items, and a few other things.  I have a list of say, 10-15 things that I would have to pick off of a Corrado.  Most I'd be better off getting new since they are wear and tear items.

With the avenue that I plan on going down, I should be looking at a solid horsepower range from 210-300 wheel horsepower.  That kind of power in a fairly light chassis is going to be very fun.

More details soon once I hear from the machine shop.  I dropped the head off yesterday (11/14) to get checked and to look at pricing for the rebuild.  More updates once that comes back from the shop.

s4josh

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2005, 01:20:36 PM »
Don't forget the role cage with that much juice! ;)
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ianacole

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2005, 01:22:01 PM »
Quote from: "StarlightB5"
Looks like a great project.  I always thought it would be fun to rebuild a car.  I remember when I was a kid, watching a neighbor rebuilding a MG.  I remember thinking that he must be a genius to be able to do that.  I will have to live vicariously through your exploits and pictures.  I wish you luck and look forward to any updates.


You could always live vicariously through coming and helping me on my project...although it's not quite the same type of project :lol:
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SweetVW

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2005, 12:27:24 AM »
Quote
You could always live vicariously through coming and helping me on my project...although it's not quite the same type of project :lol:


lol  You are right.  Sundays are best for me, it would be fun.  :D
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

ianacole

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2005, 12:47:10 AM »
Quote from: "StarlightB5"
Quote
You could always live vicariously through coming and helping me on my project...although it's not quite the same type of project :lol:


lol  You are right.  Sundays are best for me, it would be fun.  :D


The donor vehicle should be arriving Saturday, then I'll post some photos in my thread (and stop jacking this one :lol:)...it's going to be sick :twisted:
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ColoradoB5

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Wow!
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2005, 12:59:51 AM »
Steve,

The beater wars sounds awesome!  The aftermarket support for those old 16v engines is 10 times better now than it was in the late 80's and early 90's.  I had a Calloway Turbo 8v and that did 190hp in my 84 Scirocco.  The 16v in my 87 was almost as fun and very very peppy.  I am sure you will find it perfect for that car with the Lysholm.

I am excited to hear more.  I too have a thread I just realized I need to post, even though my B5 is not in it.

I can't wait to see more.
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Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2005, 02:20:30 AM »
Quote from: "s4josh"
Don't forget the role cage with that much juice! ;)


Oh I wont.  Once I can afford a nice cage, seats, and belts, that will be going into the car.

scott

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 02:47:45 AM »
I am 99% sure that the stock 16V valves are sodium filled and if I am right DO NOT let the machine shop cut them at all! I will go verify that right quick ,but you may be looking at buying new valves, seals and might as well get springs with all of that!

scott

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2005, 02:55:18 AM »
Ok, the exhaust vavles are sodium filled and if they are ground too much they will quite literally explode. I would not even risk that....

scott

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2005, 03:08:14 AM »
By the way, I highly suggest that you start hanging out on the 16v forum at vwvortex.com... LOTS of knowledge floating around in there!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=35

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2005, 03:14:12 AM »
Scott, you are a little behind the times there buddy.  All of the valves are toasted, so I already have plans to rebuild the head from start to finish.  New valve guides, new valve seals, new valves all around, new timing chain, new head bolts (needed as they are 1-time use), new gaskets all around (head gasket, camshaft seals, valve cover, intake, and exhaust gaskets), among other things.  The head is getting a complete rebuild, including a 3-angle valve job and complete port and polish.  Lots of work going into this head.  I cant afford new valve springs and lifters yet, so those will stay stock for now.  Once I rebuild the block I plan on replacing the valve springs and lifters to accomodate for some decent Cat cams or something.

BTW, Ive also been camping out on the 16 Valve forums for a week or two now.  Lots of good information.  The past few nights I've just been reading the archives, soaking the information up like a sponge.

scott

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2005, 10:55:41 AM »
I just saw the thing about the valve job and felt compelled to warn you!

As for the oil in the intake... welcome to CIS-E! You can pull the breather hose from the back corner of the aribox and stick a little filter on there if you want to avoid some of that stuff, but I have found that it it runs better when that hose is connected for some reason!

Have you considered tossing all of that CIS stuff in the dumpster and going megasquirt? You will get WAY more more, WAY more reliability and so much control over what the motor is doing that it will just astonish you!

If you want to go the cheaper route and are planning F/I sooner than later you could also just go Digifant-1 which is a few hundred cheaper, but less control over things.

Scuba2001

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1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2005, 10:49:28 PM »
Im not sure what Im going to be doing as far as management is concerned, at this point.  I've got some time to plan some more things out, so no stress here.

Thanks for the tips and advice though.  I just have to get this sucker running first, tand then see how things look in a few months, financially.

Scuba2001

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2006, 03:08:11 AM »
Well, holy moley.. been months since Ive updated this thing.

Things that have happened...

Picked up a 1.8L head, which I found to have cracks in the combustion chambers in banks 2 and 3.  STILL trying to get that dispute all worked out.

I picked up a 2.0L 16v head, fully intact for $50.  No bent valves, all in great shape.  This head will get ported, polished, and get a full rebuild with some nice TT 268 cams.

A few weeks ago I picked up a '90 Passat 2.0L 16v long block.  Complete with all CIS Motronic harness, ECU, etc.  Ive since replaced the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump.  All accessory belts have been changed also.  The block itselt will get a full break down and cleaning once my late Christmas gift arrives... an engine stand.

Ive still got to order an engine block gasket set.  The front and rear main seals are leaking pretty bad, so they will need to be cleaned, replaced, and reassembled.

So, on with some of the pictures over the past month or more.




































Scuba2001

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2006, 02:37:22 AM »
Just thought I would update this thread with the latest progress.

I've also found a set of wheels that will go well with my theme and choice of colors.

For the engine, I'll have te red block, graphite brackets and mounting hardware, and then the raw aluminum brackets from the BBM kit.  The wheels that I've chosen will be a light graphite/anthricite color and will be a sporty, yet subtle wheel.



I know its not totally keeping true to the Mk2 old school look, but these will do for now until I can afford some nice BBS RS's with graphite centers and polished lips.

Hope to have some pictures up of the paint prep process tonight of how things are looking so far.

Scuba2001

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2006, 02:37:53 AM »
Finally some new pictures of the painting progress.












Scuba2001

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2006, 02:39:19 AM »
Got some more stuff done today.  Still cant remove that bolt for the crankshaft.  I have no idea what Im going to do... but on with the pictures.








So... eventually ive got to get that bolt out.

Scuba2001

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2006, 02:40:02 AM »
Took the oil pan off, and ended up cleaning a couple quarts of oil up.  The guy I bought the engine from said he had drained the fluids... well he didn't.  So I had the joy of cleaning puddles of oil up for a few hours.

Once that was all done, I I cleaned the rest of the block up.  The back of the block wasnt all that bad, so it was a pretty simple cleaning.  Layed a few coats of primer all around the block, sealed it all up nicely, and let it dry a little.  So, on with the base coat...




I do need to get a rear plug though.  Looks like its missing... lots of dried coolant build up here in the center hole.


First coat of base:




Red is another one of those hard colors to capture on camera, so it looks like it has alot of orange to it, but it doesnt.  Its a very bright red, almost too bright for me, but it'll come out nicely with the grey.

Ill get some more pictures once the thing is all finished.  It shouldnt be too much longer from now before its all ready to reassemble.

Steve

SweetVW

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Re: 1987 Mk2 GTI 16 Valve Build Up Thread 56k die
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2006, 12:27:55 PM »
The engine has cleaned up very nicely.  Congratulations on all the hard work, I can't wait until the engine is installed and see what it looks like.
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!