Author Topic: Love my Honda...but others are crazy  (Read 4312 times)

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03Indigo

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Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« on: January 31, 2006, 10:23:07 PM »
So, I am diggin the new Civic, getting 39mpg, filled up at just under $21.  The sound system and navigation are top notch.

I am trolling the Honda forums for laughs, much younger group of people there.  They have all put deposits on the new Si, I just have the EX coupe.  Dealers are asking premiums of $3000 to $5000 for that car.  With one loaded with the Nav system, they come in at about $22 MSRP.  Add in the premiums, and you are getting a $25K (or more) car that is not all that impressive numbers and handling wise.  The car is good, but with it's 197hp, I would have expected better numbers.  I have read that the 0-60 time is over 7 seconds.  Well, my 115 hp Mini Cooper is around 8 seconds.  If I were going to spend $25K on a high performance car, it sure would not be the new Si.  I got mine loaded with nav, 140 hp 1.8L i-VTEC engine, 16" rims, and 350 watt sound system (sounds good to me, but I am deaf, hehe).

For $25K, there is a lot more you can buy, better performance, similar milage ratings, and even all wheel drive.  Here is a list of what I would consider for that money...what are your options?

--Subaru Legacy GT Sedan, non limited, no nav, 250hp, all wheel drive, 0-60 in the 5.8 second range.
--Subaru WRX...loaded, you can get one under $25K
--VW GTI or GLI

You can even get an Acura RSX-s pretty loaded, comes with leather, where the Si is only cloth, for less than the Si.  They have the same motor, suspension, brakes, etc....and you have the prestige of an Acura over a honda.

It just baffles me how the younger groups of car enthusiasts are soooooo dedicated to their Civics...thinking they are the best car out there.  These days...197hp is not all that much, the Si is great, but IMHO, not worth more than $21.5 fully loaded with Nav.

what are your thoughts?

jayryan

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 11:10:47 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if any car is worth $20K+. However, the loyalty factor among Honda owners is huge. I have  brother and sister-in-law that have no issue paying close to $10K for an Accord with 150K+ miles on them.

We paid that price bracket for our GLI and have no qualms about it or what we got. Granted the VR6 GLI came in cloth, manual seats and no sunroof or Monsoon system, but that's not what we got the car for anyway. We are totally happy with our purchase and feels it fits the price range.

Now, a car with under 200hp/nonAWD/some cool features, would be a little hard for me to justify at that price. I don't think the Si, with it's specs is worth that much. If I wanted to tune something, I'd go for a car that's easier to tune, probably a Subie, with parts available from the dealer. Honda jus has that thing behind it.

It's like Starbucks customers, they'll pay $4 for a cup of coffee (too much, but I'm guilty) because it has a green logo on it. Alot of Honda buyers (again, from experience) will pay more than their "coffee" is worth because it has an H logo on it.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you love. We'll pay for what we love...ahem *cough* coffee *cough*.
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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 11:10:47 PM »

03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2006, 12:11:53 AM »
agreed :)

gragravar

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2006, 01:55:35 AM »
it scares me how little 25K gets you in most new cars these days.  then again, the same amount gets you alot of selection in some very nice used cars.

as for the kids (does that make me old) buying civics, the brand loyalty thing is probably good for a couple of thousand dollars.  then there is the realistic evaluation of alternatives, the legacy is probably "too big" for high school/college crowd. the WRX doesn't have an interior anywhere near that of the honda.  then as much as it pains me to say it, the VWs dont have the most stellar reputation for maintainence.

I guess if I were looking to spend 25K on a car, I'd be looking into a gently used 3 series or A4, or maybe at a new mustang.  hmmm.  then again 25K would make some nice mods to the allroad too!   8O   dont think I'll get that past the wife though.
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PasSoup

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2006, 12:54:38 PM »
You can find a used GTO for under 25K.
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DenverPat

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2006, 01:20:34 PM »
Glad to hear you're diggin' it, but how can you fill up the tank (assuming it's near empty) for less than $27 bucks or so?  According to Honda, the tank is 13.2 gallons.
Dammit, Jon...are you holding out on us?  You gettin' a hook up somewhere on cheap gas?  :lol:
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2006, 01:23:03 PM »
see, you guys think along the same lines.  I went with my choice for economy and a commuter.  The savings is amazing thus far.  I bet I save over $300 a month, and for the next 3 years, it will be fine.  Allows me more room to get what I really want for my 40th birthday...an M3.

For a performance car in the $25K range, I think the Si is FAR from the mark of true performance....but the Civic in the $19K range, loaded with Navigation and the 350 watt alpine stereo, that is not bad for an economy commuter.

You can even find some decent used M3's for less than that, and we all know how well they handle.  Just look at Jason's white M3...that thing is beautiful.

DenverPat

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2006, 01:42:51 PM »
How in the world does that save you $300/month on gas?  It can't get more than a couple miles per gallon better than the MINI.  You'd have to spend thousands of dollars every month on gas.  I'm not trying to pick on ya here, Buddy, I just don't get it.
That's f'n nuts about the Si selling for such a premium.  I guess if people are willing to pay it, go for it.  Loyalty gets Honda quite a bit it sounds like.  Good for them.  They are an outstanding company, for sure.
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hotani

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2006, 01:53:41 PM »
Let's see... I'd want something less than $20k (maybe 17k or so), with low miles... say, 35k or so, AWD, turbo, mod potential, nice styling inside and out, 4 doors, decent fuel efficiency (how about 30mpg?), some warranty left over, and most importantly: heated seats.

Oh, wait... never mind. ;)
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 01:53:53 PM »
$300 total...monthly payment, insurance and gas.  I get about 27mpg in the MINI, and I am getting 38-42 mpg in the Civic.  Both run on low grade 85 octane, so the cost per gallon is also cheaper than the 91 required for the subaru.  I was averaging between 19 to 22 mpg at best in the outback.

:)

DenverPat

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 01:59:41 PM »
Aaaaaahhh...gotcha.  Sounds like you need to drive the Civic harder.  That milage is waaaay too good.   8)
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2006, 02:06:01 PM »
yeah, it is frickin awesome.  and the engine only has just over 600 miles on it....so imagine how good it will be after 5000 miles, after true break in ;)

I have yet to go into i-VTEC, but I hear it is fun when you rev that sucker up.

Not a performance car, but with all the toys and the milage, and the $20 fill ups...I am all smiles.  it cracks me up to see 140 miles on the odo, and still have 3/4 of a tank left.  That is just crazy.

TurboDub

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 02:57:09 PM »
I saw my 1st Si on the road the other day. An old dude (like 55-ish) was driving it on Chambers (near Alameda). It was silver/light bronze-ish color  - pretty sharp looking car IMHO. The car still had temp tags. The guy had the roof and windows wide open- and seemed to be thoroughly enjoying his new toy!

With the reliability and resale value of Honda's it's a hard car to beat for the money IMO. But if I was in the market for a new car, I'd prolly go with either an lightly optioned A3, a GTI, or another LGT (maybe a wagon though). The main drawback of Hondas in general is the lack of torque (made worse out here by the altitude). I think red-lining the car to play, all day, every day, would get old after a while.

C&D just tested the Si vs the GTI in the new issue. The GTI won. I think the 0-60 times were 6.7 for the GTI(DSG) and 6.8 for the Si. Although the GTI's as tested price was about 5 grand steeper (27k and change I think)  

For now I am still paying about 40 bucks to fill-up,  :roll: but my daily commute is only about 22 miles round trip. I'm happy with my car. Esp. when I take it to the mountains where the turbo and AWD really shine.
 8)
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hotani

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 03:06:54 PM »
My gripe with the A4 is that "premium fuel only" thing of which Audi is so fond. Isn't it enough that I have the premium name without having to continue to use the premium fuel? I have enough "premiums" in my life, thanks. :)

I did just fill up last night, and I think it was around $35... but then, with 0 miles to drive on a typical weekday this tank could last all month. That is the only reason I allow myself to indulge in the 3.2-A3-in-a-few-years fantasy. If I had to drive downtown every day I'd prolly be wanting a Prius or something.
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2006, 03:12:03 PM »
Charles, no way in hell would I ever let you get a Prius...butt ugly.  They have Civic Hybrids, estimated at over 50mpg, 90hp motor, 30hp electric.  not too bad.

my commute is nearly 62 miles round trip for work now...so economy is a good thing.  I miss the fun of the scoobie, miss it big time, but there are other things that can make me happy, and I still have the cooper for fun jaunts.  If I did not have the cooper as my toy car, I would not have sold the outback, not at all.  Just needed to be realistic, and more financially responsible for other things we want.

TurboDub

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2006, 03:40:41 PM »
I had a feeling the Outback was on its way out when I heard you were riding on the stock suspension again! My Outback was NOT a fun car in the twisties at all! lol

Soooo...what parts are ya selling? :twisted:

The Prius is awful! I defnitely prefer the Civic Hybrid's styling.
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hotani

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2006, 03:53:16 PM »
I agree about the civic vs prius. The prius was beaten by the ugly stick before falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down!

Chances are I won't be considering either - as long as I have my eco-pass I can let a not-so-efficient-but-way-more-fun car sit in the garage most days and enjoy driving it when I *have* to. :D
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2006, 05:06:53 PM »
Al, I just sold the coilovers, I have my 18" Rota Tarmac II rims for sale, a stock sub woofer, Xenons, and an AccessPort.  

let me know if you are interested in any of that stuff.  I also grabbed the engine cover out of the car, rubber floor mats, and all my cargo nets.

evil_O has first dips on the Xenons, which you already have a set, but if he does not want the AccessPort, it will be available, and for people I know, It will go cheaper, plus...for you...NO SHIPPING, and I will help to install it if you want.

03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2006, 05:09:55 PM »
Quote from: "hotani";p="41084"
The prius was beaten by the ugly stick before falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down!


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   U--G--L--Y--you ain't got no aliby, you ugly, hey, hey, you ugly.

I totally agree with you Charles.  You have one car, and it does great, mostly efficient, and seriously fun to drive.  With having 3 cars in the family, and a new massive commute, I had to be realistic...it was that, or sell the MINI and stick with 2 cars.  That was NOT an option.  I don't think I can ever part with the MINI

TurboDub

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2006, 06:07:08 PM »
Hmm...well, I want the rims and the AP!!!  :lol: ...but my wallet says otherwise...I just got an HDTV so my "mod money" is hurting for now.

Can ya give me ballpark figures? I can make a better/quicker decision that way... 8)

What tires were you running?

The HIDs are killer!! Best $$ I've spent on the car so far....
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2006, 06:12:50 PM »
Al, you got PM.....

jayryan

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2006, 12:55:57 PM »
My biggest gripe with my Jetta is lack of torque even though it has mad amounts. A few mods are definately in store for that car.

Try driving an Xterra, then fill up with gas :P The oil company's like me. I drive it pretty dang conservatively though. With my new job downtown though, I'll be taking lightrail...if the other job opens up, then I'll be sporting the Jetta in every few days and Tish'll roll in the truck.

BTW: If anyone talks with evil_O, tell him I miss him :wink:

Jon is the the HID kit or the whole housings and everything?? I'm looking for a kit at a decent price for the Jetta.
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03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2006, 01:19:38 PM »
the HID thing was a kit....bulbs, ballasts, and ignitors.  I think the best set up comes from www.xenondepot.com.  They have a phillips set up with ultra thin ballasts for the stelth look.  Not sure what builbs your car needs, but what ever stock bulb you have, order that in the xenon retro fit set.  evil_O has dibs on them, so they are his...as they will be a direct fit to his Subie.

The subaru ran H7s, so I ordered the 6000K H7 Xenon kit.  It is nearly $400, but remember, when it comes to stuff like this, you get what you pay for.  If you try to save $100-$150 up front, you will spend more than that down the line in replacing bulbs, ballasts, or the entire system.  Buyer be ware, and all that.

I saw evil_O last week for dinner, he is doing well, busy, working hard, getting ready to move, etc, but doing well.  I will pass on your "hello".

Scuba2001

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2006, 01:57:07 PM »
Quote from: "TurboDub";p="41091"
The HIDs are killer!! Best $$ I've spent on the car so far....


You've got that right.  I never knew what all I was missing until I had them in my own car.  Thankfully the GLI came stock with HID headlights, but they could be a little brighter.  Still, they are loops and bounds better then the halogen bulbs that most other cars have.   :lol:

BHase

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2006, 11:05:55 PM »
You know, the thing with the Civic Si is just the name of the car.  I'm always surprised at how much people will for just a name, but then, I think we all do it at some point or another.  I mean honestly, have you seen the prices on the new A4's?  $35,000+ for an A4 3.2 quattro is pretty pricey, when you consider that my car brand new with all options besides BOSE stereo cost $36,800 back in 1998.

Classic example: Mitsubishi Lancer.  And I don't mean Evo.  I've had several people go nuts about buyiing the "O.Z. Rally Edition" Lancer, "Yeah, it's fast." No, it's not fast.  You're wrong. And with a few options (which include an E-Brake handle) you're up around $25,000.  At that price, I'd choose the Civic Si, provided I didn't know better!
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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2006, 11:08:24 PM »
It's as bad as the R32...some places around here were charging a $5000 premium, not to mention the BS one company tried to pull with a previous customer.  Hence (and thankfully) I'm not currently driving a Blue R32.
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hotani

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2006, 01:54:02 AM »
Quote from: "BHase";p="41163"
...have you seen the prices on the new A4's?  $35,000+ for an A4 3.2 quattro is pretty pricey, when you consider that my car brand new with all options besides BOSE stereo cost $36,800 back in 1998.

I went to the Audi site and priced out an A3 3.2 with all the stuff I'd want on it, nav, bi-xenon, etc... came out to $40k. Yeowzers!! That's the "entry level" Audi we're talking about!! Maxxed out, yeah, but still - I think I'll wait for the used one.
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Scuba2001

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2006, 02:03:49 AM »
Quote from: "hotani";p="41165"
I went to the Audi site and priced out an A3 3.2 with all the stuff I'd want on it, nav, bi-xenon, etc... came out to $40k. Yeowzers!! That's the "entry level" Audi we're talking about!! Maxxed out, yeah, but still - I think I'll wait for the used one.


Those were my same exact thoughts when I was comparing the A3 to the GLI.  I can get more space in the GLI, and the same options for about $10k less, and it weigh only about 70lbs more then the A3.

03Indigo

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2006, 03:05:48 AM »
but you still have a $30,000 Jetta.  I know it has nice features, but remember just 5 years ago when the Jetta topped out at $22K.  The Jetta is an entry level vehicle as well, and loaded, it is worth $30K?  Judgement call, and priority check.

This is my point, I want a nice car, high performance, but I think what you are getting for your money these days is not really a true value...

I decided to get rid of the european luxuries for economy reasons, and one day, I want to be in another Audi or BMW...but if things continue in this price range, not sure if I will go that route.  I guess my priorities are changing over time.

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Re: Love my Honda...but others are crazy
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2006, 01:41:52 PM »
at the way the prices are increasing i am not sure if i will be able to afford another Audi or BMW when the time comes. I bet ya i will be getting a Civic next time like jon. For the price you actually get a good car and alot of features. And it seems like every honda lasts 250,000 miles before needing any real service. It seems like the smart thing to do.