Author Topic: Playing with timing....  (Read 2692 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Playing with timing....
« on: April 19, 2006, 12:53:15 PM »
So after the odd results from the Dyno-Day, I have been working on my car, to learn more about the effects of high altitude.  I started looking at the MAF, fuel trim, boost, and timing.

I took a bunch of logs and noticed that my car was not advancing the timing under load.  This is causing a lack of power as the RPM increase.  I talked to Jeff Moss @ Torque Factory about it and we decided to play with the timing advance setting in the ECU.  Taking little steps, we were able to get the ECU to advance the timing in the higher RPM range, and get back some of the power.  You have to be careful when doing this, because too much timing advance can cause the knocks to go too high and really cause some problems for the motor.

Altitude, or lack of air density, has many effects on our cars.  It lowers the grams per second passing over the MAF, reduces the air/fuel ratio, and retards timing advance.  All of these lead to less power.  At sea level these issues are not effecting the car.  Therefor the software needs to be adjusted for high altitude use, so that it acts like a car running at sea level.

Next I am going to start working with the injector on time and boost.  I hope to get some additional gains by increasing the injector load and then I can request more boost to be made.  The waste gate duty cycle is only in the mid 70's so there is more in the turbo, I just have to get the air/fuel and timing right, so that I can safely increase the boost.

If I was ever to take my car down in elevation, I would have to remove the added timing.  If I did not the knocks would skyrocket and my motor would well let's not talk about it..... :cry:

I will post more later after I have adjusted the injector cycle and boost levels.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

92UrS4

  • Administrator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,934
    • Rocky Mountain Club B5
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 12:59:18 PM »
Sounds like quite the undertaking Randy. Have you chatted with Rusty at all about what he's done? I know his car is old school DBC, but maybe some of the things he has done might help you in your quest.

Rocky Mountain Club B5

Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 12:59:18 PM »

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 01:22:10 PM »
What Jay said, chat with Rusty a bit...I was messing around with some of the same for a while.
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 01:37:31 PM »
no offense to Rusty, but Jeff Moss is definately the right guy to be talking to.  He knows these engines (the 1.8T and 2.7T) better than anyone I have heard of.  I know people that drive over 800 miles to have Jeff work on their cars!

do be careful though if you ever head down the hill though Randy.  

Since my car spends a couple of trips a year driving down to sea level, this is one mod we won't ever be doing for my car.

would be interesting to see if the timing needs to be as far advanced in a KO4 car as it does in the K03 cars.  does the higher boost in the KO4 allow the software to more normally approximate sea level conditions?  hmmm. maybe if those folks switch to KO4 software, then they would have to advance as well.
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2006, 01:40:53 PM »
With Respect to K04, yes is the answer.  I did some with the stage 3- S4 we built last month.

I will be putting an AWE stge 3 fueling kit on another S4 next week.  I will log the car and see if timing needs to be advanced there too.  I would bet that it needs a little help.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2006, 03:29:34 PM »
There's so many variables to this tuning with the car it's obscene. It really varies from car to car. I will say that computer-based tuning is the way to go. You will probably end up helping the tuners out in the long run. I think it's way cool. Can you tune my Xterra? It's a dog  :roflmao:
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2006, 03:36:14 PM »
Quote from: "jayryan";p="45393"
There's so many variables to this tuning with the car it's obscene. It really varies from car to car. I will say that computer-based tuning is the way to go. You will probably end up helping the tuners out in the long run. I think it's way cool. Can you tune my Xterra? It's a dog  :roflmao:


you just need to go retro, and trade that X in for a Lamborghini LM002

looked like a Humvee



but was still relatively quick for it's size and day:

Engine: 5.7 liter V-12
Horsepower: 450 Bhp
0-60 mph: 8.5 sec
Top Speed: 126 mph
Tires: 345x17
Curb Weight: 5,900 lb
Length: 495 cm
Width: 200 cm

http://www.motorcities.com/contents/99/1990-Lamborghini-LM002-American-rosso-red_99HHL483217052.html
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

s4josh

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2006, 03:51:15 PM »
I always liked those LM002, but I never knew they sold them in the US!  They sound awsome!
Josh Ver 2.0

2011 VW Jetta 2.5 SE DSG
2009 VW Jetta TDI 6sp man
2006 VW MkV GTI DSG w/LC
2005 VW Passat Wagon TDI-PD
2003 VW Jetta TDI-PD
2001 Audi B5.5 S4 6sp man

kraut-sled

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,020
    • Autobahn Premier Service
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2006, 04:13:30 PM »
8O
5,900 lbs :roflmao:

It is a good looking beast though.
Autobahn Premier Service
2105 South Kalamath Street
Denver CO 80223
303-935-9065

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 04:40:46 PM »
:lol:  :roflmao:
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

s4josh

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2006, 06:50:28 PM »
You think thats funny watch this video.  You have to click the "Free" button down towards the bottom of the page to watch it.

Lambo LM002 - Fifth Gear review
Josh Ver 2.0

2011 VW Jetta 2.5 SE DSG
2009 VW Jetta TDI 6sp man
2006 VW MkV GTI DSG w/LC
2005 VW Passat Wagon TDI-PD
2003 VW Jetta TDI-PD
2001 Audi B5.5 S4 6sp man

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2006, 10:34:26 PM »
Quote from: "s4josh";p="45401"
You think thats funny watch this video.  You have to click the "Free" button down towards the bottom of the page to watch it.

Lambo LM002 - Fifth Gear review


posting that is just mean, now I just want one more...
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

Spicoli

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,243
    • http://www.jackham.net
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2006, 01:08:16 AM »
link doesn't work for me.
Life's too short to be taken seriously

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: Playing with timing....
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2006, 01:29:19 AM »
it was confusing to get to it, but at the bottom of the page it should say:

Download-session invalid. Please click here.

well, click there.  then on the next page click free at the bottom, then wait about 30 seconds on the next page and you'll have the option to download.   :roll:
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein