Author Topic: Excellent 1.8t Resource  (Read 4521 times)

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ColoradoB5

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« on: November 13, 2003, 02:15:36 PM »
I don't know how many of you have seen this, but for those that are new to the 1.8t engine and even for thosse vets that haven't seen it all, I saw a great post in the 1.8t forum on VWVortex:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=450388

Check it out.
You can't rehabilitate a fire ant.

coveredbytheblood

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2004, 12:10:23 PM »
This site was a great source for info. Thanks.
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Rocky Mountain Club B5

Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2004, 12:10:23 PM »

jayryan

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5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2004, 09:24:49 PM »
5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld posted by MC:



More fuel.

You may not need it. Hook up a Vag tool and check "long term fuel trim" the closer to 0 the better. Most run -3%. This means that the ECU is pulling 3% of the fuel out. So there is no need for the 5bar. If you are at 0 or any + number you may want to add it. Of course 0 would be perfect but its an indication that there is not much reserve. Be sure to check this after some hard runs and at diff times of the year ect.. it changes. If you reset the DTC's you will erase the trim information. It takes something like 12 miles for it to learn again.

I sell an adjustable unit that allows me to set the trim exactly where I want it. I have noticed that 0--3% the car runs perfect. Much past -3 and you take a slight drivablity hit. -7 and behond is bad.. Poor fuel mileage ect.. I found that a 5 bar was had to much part throttle fuel for my car with some chips. I need about 4.5 to be perfect.

Contrary to what some thing there is no difference between a 4 bar and a 5 abr FPR at WOT and high boost. I have tested this over and over with a fuel pres gauge. Both units hit 80 psi at WOT under full boost.


Clark
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

Babyrs4

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2004, 09:56:48 PM »
dam! I think it's a great basic knowlege that every 1.8t owners should know about!! ;-)
thanks Winston!

ColoradoB5

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 11:33:57 AM »
Yep, it is a good first place to check for 1.8t related information.
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Rusty

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Re: 5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2005, 01:56:53 PM »
Quote from: "jayryan"
5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld posted by MC:


More fuel.

You may not need it. Hook up a Vag tool and check "long term fuel trim" the closer to 0 the better. Most run -3%. This means that the ECU is pulling 3% of the fuel out. So there is no need for the 5bar. If you are at 0 or any + number you may want to add it. Of course 0 would be perfect but its an indication that there is not much reserve. Be sure to check this after some hard runs and at diff times of the year ect.. it changes. If you reset the DTC's you will erase the trim information. It takes something like 12 miles for it to learn again.

I sell an adjustable unit that allows me to set the trim exactly where I want it. I have noticed that 0--3% the car runs perfect. Much past -3 and you take a slight drivablity hit. -7 and behond is bad.. Poor fuel mileage ect.. I found that a 5 bar was had to much part throttle fuel for my car with some chips. I need about 4.5 to be perfect.

Contrary to what some thing there is no difference between a 4 bar and a 5 abr FPR at WOT and high boost. I have tested this over and over with a fuel pres gauge. Both units hit 80 psi at WOT under full boost.


Clark

This is mostly a crock...
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

ColoradoB5

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Re: 5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2005, 02:01:42 PM »
Quote from: "Rusty"
Quote from: "jayryan"
5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld posted by MC:


More fuel.

You may not need it. Hook up a Vag tool and check "long term fuel trim" the closer to 0 the better. Most run -3%. This means that the ECU is pulling 3% of the fuel out. So there is no need for the 5bar. If you are at 0 or any + number you may want to add it. Of course 0 would be perfect but its an indication that there is not much reserve. Be sure to check this after some hard runs and at diff times of the year ect.. it changes. If you reset the DTC's you will erase the trim information. It takes something like 12 miles for it to learn again.

I sell an adjustable unit that allows me to set the trim exactly where I want it. I have noticed that 0--3% the car runs perfect. Much past -3 and you take a slight drivablity hit. -7 and behond is bad.. Poor fuel mileage ect.. I found that a 5 bar was had to much part throttle fuel for my car with some chips. I need about 4.5 to be perfect.

Contrary to what some thing there is no difference between a 4 bar and a 5 abr FPR at WOT and high boost. I have tested this over and over with a fuel pres gauge. Both units hit 80 psi at WOT under full boost.


Clark

This is mostly a crock...


Why is that, Rusty?  Are you talking about with or without a chip?
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Rusty

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Re: 5 Bar FPR Info from Audiworld
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2005, 02:42:43 PM »
Quote from: "ColoradoB5"
Quote from: "Rusty"
This is mostly a crock...


Why is that, Rusty?  Are you talking about with or without a chip?

Chip or no chip, it does not matter.

Crock or Not:

Hook up a Vag tool and check "long term fuel trim" the closer to 0 the better. Not

Most run -3%. Crock.

This means that the ECU is pulling 3% of the fuel out. Not.

So there is no need for the 5bar. Not.

If you are at 0 or any + number you may want to add it. Crock.

Of course 0 would be perfect but its an indication that there is not much reserve. Crock this "reserve" comment indicates a lack of understanding of what fuel trims actually are, and what they mean.

Be sure to check this after some hard runs and at diff times of the year ect.. it changes. Sort of Crock, sort of Not.

If you reset the DTC's you will erase the trim information. Sort of.

It takes something like 12 miles for it to learn again. Sort of.

I sell an adjustable unit that allows me to set the trim exactly where I want it.  Aha, he's trying to sell you something you don't need.

I have noticed that 0--3% the car runs perfect. Much past -3 and you take a slight drivablity hit. -7 and behond is bad.. Poor fuel mileage ect.. I found that a 5 bar was had to much part throttle fuel for my car with some chips. I need about 4.5 to be perfect. OK, so this is perfect for his particular car with his particular tuning.

Contrary to what some thing there is no difference between a 4 bar and a 5 abr FPR at WOT and high boost. I have tested this over and over with a fuel pres gauge. Both units hit 80 psi at WOT under full boost. BIG crock. If he is hitting 80 psi with a 4-bar FPR (60 psi), then he's running 20 lbs. boost.  If you start with a 5 bar at 75 psi, 75 + 20 = 95 psi.  Either his 5-bar is defective, or his fuel pump is defective and can't keep the rail pressurized past 80 psi.  Or his gauge is broken and won't register higher than 80.
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

jayryan

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2005, 03:15:15 PM »
I love Rusty. Without him we'd all be driving Fiesta wannabes. :lol:
'03 A4 1.8TQM
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ColoradoB5

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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2005, 03:20:08 PM »
So Rusty, would you recommend going with a 4 or 5 bar FPR?  Also, which N75 valve would you recommend using with that?
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Rusty

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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2005, 04:09:08 PM »
Quote from: "ColoradoB5"
So Rusty, would you recommend going with a 4 or 5 bar FPR?  Also, which N75 valve would you recommend using with that?


I highly recommend the 7-bar N75 valve, and the "Q" version of the FPR.
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

coveredbytheblood

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2005, 04:21:33 PM »
Where can I find these things??
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jayryan

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2005, 04:24:00 PM »
IHOP.
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coveredbytheblood

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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2005, 04:40:56 PM »
The international house of pancakes..  What??  Jr, are you working overtime and sniffing glue again.  "Gimme that!!"
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jayryan

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Excellent 1.8t Resource
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2005, 04:42:54 PM »
:D
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ColoradoB5

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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2005, 05:34:09 PM »
Quote from: "Rusty"
Quote from: "ColoradoB5"
So Rusty, would you recommend going with a 4 or 5 bar FPR?  Also, which N75 valve would you recommend using with that?


I highly recommend the 7-bar N75 valve, and the "Q" version of the FPR.


Now I know you are pulling my leg.  Who are you and what are you doing on Rusty's computer?
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Rusty

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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2005, 07:18:17 PM »
Heh-heh.  Keep your 4 bar FPR.  BTW, the Passat (and maybe the A4) is the only 1.8T to have a 4-bar FPR.  All the transverse-engine cars use a 3-bar.

No matter what you do, you will not be able to get more fuel.  If you add a 5-bar FPR, the closed-loop fuel trims will just cut back the fuel (make the fuel pulses shorter) so the net result is the same amount of fuel.  If you add a 3-bar FPR, you won't get any less fuel, because the closed-loop fuel trims will just add fuel (make the pulsewidth bigger) so the net result is the same amount of fuel.  

As for open-loop, the closed-loop trims are applied to the open-loop maps, so you don't get any more or less fuel at WOT, either. (Not quite true - in specific cases the percentage change has a slightly different effect than the fuel pressure on open-loop, but it's not anything that you can depend on to tune with.)

As for N75's, read this post, it won't tell you which one to get, but it will give you some interesting info: http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165369

Personally, I'd stick with the stock N75.
i]AEB Engines have better-flowing heads and a real throttle cable...[/i]

jayryan

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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2005, 08:34:45 PM »
I'd like to have Jay post JUST your linked write in the Tech forum for safe keeping so nobody has to hunt it down. I guess Winston could put it there too. It's just too good to have to hunt for it.
Thanks
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ColoradoB5

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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2005, 09:06:46 PM »
Quote from: "jayryan"
I'd like to have Jay post JUST your linked write in the Tech forum for safe keeping so nobody has to hunt it down. I guess Winston could put it there too. It's just too good to have to hunt for it.
Thanks


Which part, specifically?
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