Author Topic: Thoughts going forward.....  (Read 4403 times)

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SweetVW

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Thoughts going forward.....
« on: September 26, 2006, 11:58:57 AM »
After working on improving the performance of the engine while keeping the outside stock (stealth), I am at a bit of a roadblock.  I would like to continue working the engine.  I have already thought of an intercooler, upgraded turbo and such, but they are a ways away from completion.  I was just wondering about any other performance increases that I can utilize. Here is what I have done so far, remember that with the 337 I already have OEM upgraded parts (brakes, suspension, exhaust, tranny, clutch, etc),
 
Forge 007p diverter valve
Bosch 4bar FPR
Red silicone vacuum lines
ECS lightweight/under drive pulley set
Forge silicone turbo inlet pipe
Forge 5 piece intake silicone kit
APR performance chip (Stock, 91, Valet, 100)
Red 4 gauge engine grounding kit
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Spicoli

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 12:13:04 PM »
Your exhaust and suspension is not anything special on the 337... still stuff made for the average consumer, and certain noise levels, etc.

Exhaust.  Milltek, APR, GHL... just depend on what sound you want.  Personally I like the sound of Milltek and love the look.  Love the sound of APR, look is okay.  GHL has the best performance (minute difference).

Suspension.  doing springs isn't necessary, the ones you have are prety good as long as you aren't going to track your car tons.  UPgrading your shocks to a bilstein or koni will help with handling.  rear sway bar is a big one for handling.  better tires than those OEM ones.   They last a long time and good in the wet, but their dry handling leaves a lot ot be desired... better tire do wear out faster btw.

Intake will give you a more aggresive sound, any performance gains are minimal

You can always get better rotors and brake pads for your car (Ferodo 2500 pads, some sort of hardened rotor)

If you're going to stay with stock turbo, Forge SMIC

If you're going to do a turbo upgrade, then wait and get an IC with it
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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 12:13:04 PM »

34k

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 01:38:17 PM »
I agree with everything Jack said, especially the Turbo-Back Exhaust, Rear Sway and Pads.

Pancake Pipe won't hurt to help the flow of your stock SMIC, or even the Forge SMIC if you go that route.

Dog Bone Mount will help reduce the flex of the engine, but you will sacrifice some vibration noise. I would say the side mounts are over-kill unless you're going to go nuts-o with the engine.

Oh and not to be disagreeable, but there's nothing "stealth" about the look of a 337  :P

That's a good lookin list Dave  :thumbup:
You have that thing Dyno'd yet?
Andrew

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gragravar

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 02:34:17 PM »
guess it depends on how far you want to go with those engine mods (and how deep your pockets are feeling)

you could always pull everything apart, get some new pistons and connecting rods and make your engine a "stroker" for a little more displacement.  along with that some new cams for a little more timing in the engine.  Then add on that bigger turbo.

there is also adding in a mist system to cool intake temps.  along those same lines you could add in a NOS spray on your intercooler to bring down the intake temps too.

If you really want to know what engine modding is possible check out Hap's ride over on audiworld.  he goes by UrS4guy and can be found in the Rocky Mtn or the C4 S4 boards.
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

Spicoli

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 03:00:52 PM »
BTW, if you do a lot of city driving, I would steer you against a Big Turbo... but if you mainly do highway miles (or at least not much stoping at lights) then I would say BT is F'ing sweet!  otherwise is sucks ass.

I forgot about the dogbone... I don't know what performance it gives, but it definitely makes the car feel better/faster... if you don't mind the extra vibration/engine noise. - cheap and easy upgrade too.
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SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 03:00:57 PM »
Quote from: "34k";p="51351"
Oh and not to be disagreeable, but there's nothing "stealth" about the look of a 337 :P


I know I chuckled at that, its like calling a shark a dolphin with teeth. No, I have not had it dyno'd yet, I need to.

I thank you guys for the ideas. I wish money were no object, but it gives me some things to think about and play with.
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

DenverPat

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 03:31:27 PM »
Yeah, I'd stick with the stock turbo, too.
Does anyone do EFKs on those cars?  That's one of the few non-boost related power improvements you can make.  It's nice to increase power without just doing it on the top end of the rev range.  Might not work with the pully you're using, though.  Ask Jack, Ian or Andy.
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ianacole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 04:07:57 PM »
EFK?
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SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 04:10:14 PM »
I was wondering that too?
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DenverPat

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 04:24:12 PM »
Electric Fan Kit
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
-Chuck Patterson

ianacole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2006, 04:25:57 PM »
Hmmmm, interesting, hadn't thought about that - as a replacement to the existing electric fan set up?  Might be some decent weight savings there, right off the front of the car.
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DenverPat

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 04:29:00 PM »
Not sure how the fan is on your cars.  All I know is the A4.  Fairly common mod for the A4.  About 10 hp throughout rev range.
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
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ianacole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 04:35:57 PM »
Does the A4 run the fan off a pulley?  The GTI's are transverse, so they're electric already, but doing something like speed-lite's (?) might provide some performance help.
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DenverPat

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 04:37:41 PM »
Yeah, the A4 uses a pulley.
What's speed-lite and how would that help?
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
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SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 04:39:37 PM »
What about larger fuel injectors?  Does that only benefit when a larger turbo is used?
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DenverPat

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 04:41:26 PM »
Stick with the injectors and FPR spec'd by the software manufacturer.  BTW, what's with the 4 bar FPR.  Is that what they spec?
"Of all the extreme sports I've ever participated in- windsurfing, kite boarding, wake boarding, tow-in surfing and snowboarding- skiing, for me, made everything else easy."
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SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 04:48:34 PM »
If I remember it was a suggestion that was given to me from a conversation with Ian a while back, it would help with performance. I do notice a bit of a difference.

Funny thing about the FPR in the Passat and the GTI. The Passat had a 4 bar FPR stock and the GTI had a 3 bar FPR, same engine, different FPR? I am not sure why.?
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

ianacole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2006, 05:08:38 PM »
Ooops:  Flex-A-Lite fans - http://www.flex-a-lite.com/
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Cole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2006, 05:58:39 PM »
AWD :twisted:

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SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2006, 06:52:55 PM »
I have seen that done on a Jetta, and man would it be work!!!
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

Spicoli

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2006, 10:29:33 PM »
Quote from: "StarlightB5";p="51386"
I have seen that done on a Jetta, and man would it be work!!!


Yep... cheaper and better to just import an S3
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Eric18T

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2006, 10:43:47 PM »
Quote from: "DenverPat";p="51369"
Stick with the injectors and FPR spec'd by the software manufacturer. BTW, what's with the 4 bar FPR. Is that what they spec?


I am wondering why he is running it too. On my jetta 1.8T w/ K04 APR software i still ran the 4bar fpr and OEM injectors. I know some of the revo files asked for the 4bar fpr but the standard APR stage 1/2 software should be fine with the 3bar fpr.

The EFK's aren't really that popular with the Mk4 cars and would require someone to fab it to fit.

.
The only thing i would look at would be a upgraded sidemount intercooler, Boost factory or Tyrollkid are good products and affordable.

Other than that i think good suspension and brakes are more important that more engine.

You could always sell it and buy my car. :)

RobD

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2006, 03:04:59 AM »
Dave I have to agree with the exhaust and intake suggestion.  My buddy back in Cincy (Go Bengals!) has a 337 with a GHL turbo back exhaust and the Pflow intake coupled with the Revo software program and it is a blast to drive.  The "BUTT" dyno from stock exhaust to the GHL exhaust made a nice improvement in throttle response and overall pull.  Combine those two with what you have done and I think it would be real nice.

I would also look the rear sway too. Gotta keep scouring the vortex classifieds for a deal on stuff!

Good luck

Rob

SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2006, 11:44:38 AM »
Thanks for all of the suggestions guys, I really appreciate the input and conversation.

With all of the wonder about the FPR, is it hurting anything by having it?
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ianacole

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2006, 12:15:33 PM »
Only the environment ;)
"The corruption of man is followed by corruption of language." -Emerson

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34k

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2006, 02:34:52 PM »
Yeah, I wouldn't have upgraded my FPR if my software didn't require it.
I would swap it back if you aren't required to run it.

Personally, I would leave the intake alone too unless you're into the DV noise and you can find one for c-h-e-a-p. The stock airbox is actually quite efficient. We've had this discussion before, but I'll re-cap.

The performance gains on intake modifications are negligable and you introduce one of two problems.

The first problem is with a real Cold Air Intake. This system puts the filter behind your front bumper, below the battery. This is the best location for drawing in cooler, more dense air. The main drawback is you must be very, very careful about water since submerging the filter may cause water to be pulled into the intake tube and you're looking at possible hydro-lock.

The second is a Short Ram, or P-Flow style intake which puts the filter in the engine bay. This style is questionable since you are going to be drawing warm or even hot engine air which will be less dense. The theory behind this is that performance can be gained by shortening the intake path. IMO, at best, these are a waste of money. At worst, you will be hurting the performance of your car for something that is a visual mod.

You may mock me if you wish. I do own both a real CAI as well as a Short Ram and use both. There is a method to my madness however.  I paid less than what either one would cost alone for both of them. I have already come to terms with the fact that the money was spent on something quite, quite silly. :roll:


Here's a good one... Slap a Quaife in there!
Andrew

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2003 GTI
1992 GTI

SweetVW

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2006, 04:13:45 PM »
I don't plan on doing anything more with the intake sans the intercooler when the time comes.  I am happy with the exhaust sound (it has changed allot since putting the DV and silicone implants in.:wink:).  I would have to ride in a few cars to hear if I like other sounds as well as performance.  I have figured that I need to install sway bars and though the brakes are already great, I know there is always room for improvement.  I have thought about a LS differential, but I do not know if it would benefit the mostly city driving that I do.

I have e-mail APR support to see what their thoughts are on the FPR.  I will see what they say.
If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it!

Eric18T

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Re: Thoughts going forward.....
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2006, 09:30:16 PM »
dave if you want a P-Flo intake i have one. You can have for the low price of 1 4pk of Guiness. :)

e-mail me and i can get it to you.

I called Stephan at APR today about the FPR and he suggested taking it out and using the stock one. The 3 bar is fine for the Stage 1 software.