Author Topic: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest  (Read 17804 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« on: September 07, 2007, 02:24:17 AM »
OK, this came up tonight while at Blake Street Tavern and my wife was watching their HDTV.  She insisted I get a second job and that we get an HDTV since football season is now upon us.

I know most of you know more about this than I do, and I want to open this up and have it as a resource to others that are looking for a new TV.

Requirements:

Physical Space:
opening in our Wall next to the fireplace (all measurements are Maximum, and NO, we will not be knocking down walls to fit a TV, so it must fit these dimensions:
49.5" wide
52" high
25" depth (recess into the wall for entertainment center

We sit about 11 feet from the face of the opening, and here is an image of the room



It is open to the kitchen, has surround sound including Infinity and Polk Audio speakers in the walls and ceiling, and a sub woofer in the book case off to the left of the TV.

It must be compatible with my existing system including my Yamaha receiver, Sony DVD player and my PS2.  I would like to have it set up similar to what we have now...TV/Cable, Video 1 is the DVD player, Video 2 is the PS2.  I want the option to listen to all components through the TV or the surround sound system independently.  I don't want to upgrade my sound system, DVD player, or anything else until they bite the dust.  Right now, it all works perfectly.  We have my wife's 32" television in there right now, and we really have no complaints, but I know she would like a better television.

I am not looking for the "worlds best", I just want a high quality TV that will last as long as our other ones, Minimum of 10 years for each one (we each owned a 32" TV before we met).  Our eyes are not perfect, so the world's greatest, most perfect image is not that important.  What I do want is something that is bright, minimal glare as we have a ton of windows on the right side of the room, and something that has a great picture/color depth.  Price range is about $2K, but if we can score under that, I would be happy, if we have to go over that, I need to know why (understanding) of what the benefits are and if they are worth it.  I would like to fill up as much of the opening as possible (pictured above).

So, there you have it, whip out your spread sheets, impress me with your techno knowledge, and help me find my wife a new TV that we will be happy with for the years to come.

:)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 02:29:21 AM by 03Indigo »

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 02:34:12 AM »
here is an example of one that will fit, a 50" television, dimensions make it 2" less wide than the opening

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HvnW3Al136H/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=13350PX75U


Rocky Mountain Club B5

Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2007, 02:34:12 AM »

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2007, 01:22:55 PM »
my vote goes to the mitsubishi DLP.  you dont need a flat panel if you have that recessed area.  save some $ and go with the dlp.  this will save you some money.  Do budget about $150 ever 2 or 3 years to replace the lamp in the dlp projector, but the initial cost saving should keep you ahead of the game.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/img/276468/WD-52631%20Product%20Specifications.pdf
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 02:20:10 PM by gragravar »
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2007, 01:35:58 PM »
got a link?  I can not find the mitsubishi DLP on crutchfield, and I want to see the dimensions, etc....so I know what size might fit in our space.

it is an option, but over 10 years, that can add $450 to $600 just for bulbs :(.  but if the savings are better, that would be an advantage, as long as they continue to make the bulbs and they do not vanish like old technology does. Are they easy to replace?

gragravar

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,315
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2007, 02:20:55 PM »
post fixed.  I actually had the link there, but stupidly used the img tags rather than the url tags.  doh.
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

jfrahm

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 693
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 03:02:46 PM »
Check out secondact.com for some good deals.  A friend of mine got a DLP last year and he likes it, he got some extended warranty that covers the bulb.  Me, I decided the lamp and fan were not what I wanted.  I am looking at a 47-52 LCD to replace my Samsung 46" RP HDTV.  There are some amazing deals on 50" plasmas these days but a concern with them is buzzing, which can get louder at altitude.  Some do not do it at all.  Plasmas usually do not have 1080p resolution but that is not a huge deal for most people and not even noticeable if you sit farther back.  Plus the 50" size is a good size for me and LCDs do not seem to come in that size.  46, 47 and 52".

Mainly I want to get the thick box out of my room, the TV works fine but as it is not in a corner it is kind of imposing. 

The 47" Vizio 1080p LCD is a contender for me right now.  I can get one for about $1200 shipped.  I have a 42" Vizio in my office/bedroom and I really like the tuner, which can switch between analog cable and QAM (unscrambled digital cable) just like switching between any pair of channels.  I am not sure if they all do that.  That is important if you want to flip to a non-digital channel and back to digital quickly.

I like a lot the newer 120hz 1080p LCDs but I am not keen on spending over $2k for a damn TV.  If I wait 6-12 months I might be able to get a 52" 1080p LCD with that 120hz refresh for maybe $1800 but I might be just as happy with a 47" now for $600 less.  52 is kinda big for my room anyway.

-Joel.
2001 Audi A8 Quattro 4.2l

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2007, 03:13:45 PM »
this is great information....still not sold on DLP technology as you have to replace stuff over time.  I need to see one in person to see the quality.

this one strikes my interest, and is our price range, and is great with anti-reflective...and is about as big as we can get for our space limitations.  It has all the inputs I want, so it would be easy to tie into our existing system, and we would upgrade our cable to HD with another DVR for the basement.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nmvEfi9vx92/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=13350PX77

Are there DVRs you can buy that are NOT TiVo?  Like you buy a VCR, can you just buy one that works without having to connect to phone lines or pay for service?  Or should I just look at the one you pay for each month from Comcast?


03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2007, 03:15:25 PM »
oh crap, just realized that one is too wide :(.  I had too many windows open and got my dimensions crossed.

But something like that, with the anti-glare screen to that quality would be ideal.

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2007, 03:40:10 PM »
I think that large space ABOVE the fireplace is just begging for a 60+" TV!  ;D

Here is one chart showing screen size/distance from TV in relation to resolution (480/720/1080). Here is another one.

According to those, if you are 10 feet away from a 42" screen you would not be able to tell the difference between 720 and 1080. However, if you went to 60 it would be noticeable. This is good to keep in mind if you are wondering whether or not you need to go 1080.

Check out this page for some good comparisons of DVD vs HD quality.

This is the 37" I have, but the stand and speakers are off and it is mounted to the wall. This 47" is the same brand and is LCD. My "monitor" has been great - absolutely no complaints and I'd recommend Westy to anyone looking. And I'd buy it again.

One more thing: the price of that 47" is 200 less than what I paid for the 37" over a year ago (from Crutchfield), so the prices really are dropping.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 03:46:01 PM by hotani »
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 04:02:49 PM »
great info Charles.  We are at around 11-12 feet away, so in the 46 to 50 inch range, looks like 720 would be more than fine, 1080 would be overkill.

Are there more reviews on the 47" you listed?  How is the glare on yours.  I know you sit close ;), but with your window on the left side of that room, when you are on your couch or in your dining area...is the glare bad?  We have 5 HUGE windows on the right side of the room, so glare is a big issue.


hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 05:04:10 PM »
It does have the 'anti-glare' surface which helps a little. This new trend of putting glossy surfaces on flat panels is idiotic methinks.

In my room I have the blinds slanted away from the monitor so even if the sun is shining directly in it is never making contact with the screen. Even from the couch or kitchen it is viewable at midday. Your room is much brighter and there are more opportunities for direct sunlight to fall on the screen which will hinder viewing of any display. Just be sure not to get a glossy one!
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 06:04:44 PM »
That is my worry, before I order one, I will make sure to either find it in person or call and see if it is anti-glare or glossy.  I will NOT get a glossy one what so ever.

Cole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,035
    • http://rockcrawler.com
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2007, 06:17:28 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is that if you keep it for 10 years I would go 1080p.  More and more stuff is coming out on 1080p (HDDVD, BluRay, more cable channels).

No sense in buying old technology already.

The price difference between LCD/plasma and DLP can be pretty huge and in many cases the DLP actually has a better picture.  They are ALL going to need some level of service in the coming years.  So don't let the bulb/colorwheel thing on a DLP scare you. I have replaced two on my dad's TV in the last 4 years and he leaves it on litterally 24/7 since his stroke.

The other thing to consider moving from a stadard TV to a widescreen is that the screen size has to go up to have the same basic viewable image. 12' from the TV plus the distance to the kitchen I would look at 50"+ TVs.  We have the same deminsions in our living room/ kitchen and LOVE our 56" 1080p Samsung DLP TV.

I also bought a PS3 to go with it. Same price as other BluRay players with the same features PLUS HD gaming, Onine gaming, WiFi built in, 60g Hard drive built in, etc etc etc

Cole Ford
Financial Advisor

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2007, 07:05:30 PM »
Cole, I need to come over and see your set up, especially if you have similar dimensions.  Seeing is believing for me.

Maybe I can come over for a visit sometime next week if you are home.

You make good points about the 1080 issue.  Do you know if the new technology is going to be able to handle old DVDs?  I have over 650 movies on DVD, and I would hate to replace them if we end up with an HDDVD down the line.

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2007, 07:31:16 PM »
Both HDDVD and BluRay players should play standard DVDs just fine. I just saw that an HDDVD player dropped below the magic $200 price point which makes it a consideration. I wouldn't buy any videos, but with Netflix there are a ton available to rent.

Ideally, since nobody knows which technology will be victorious in the end, it would be best to get a player that could handle both BluRay and HDDVD. Or do like Cole and get a PS3 (BluRay) or Xbox with the HDDVD add-on. Then when the other technology wins out at least you still have your gaming console! :)
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

Eric18T

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,668
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2007, 08:37:51 PM »
after my last expereince with our Plasma dying after we moved to CO (didn't buy the extended warranty) i will get a LCD next time (and will buy the x-tended warranty). Apparently alot of the Plasma were not altitude adjusted.  Currently we are back with a regular generic tv till i figure out what to do. 

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2007, 10:34:12 PM »
Move all those pictures from the wall and use a projector
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2007, 12:33:44 PM »
that would be awesome, my dad has a 150 inch projector HD thingy in his house.

Doubt that will ever happen here, the window is opposite the wall of with the pictures, then I would have to cut into the dry wall for wiring, move all the surround sound, more dry wall stuff....and the cost of a huge projector....It is a good dream, but will never be a reality ;)


copassatguy

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2007, 07:21:58 PM »
I have the 57" Mits DLP and I love it especially with the PS3...
wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

copassatguy

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2007, 08:03:44 PM »
I would hold off on buying into the next generation of media yet, especially if you are leaning towards HD DVD... You would not want to be the proud of owner of the next beta or divx machine  ;).
wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

copassatguy

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2007, 08:07:12 PM »
Cole what's your PSN ID? Mine is the same as this site...
wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

jayryan

  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,211
    • JayFriesen.com
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2007, 11:34:35 PM »
that would be awesome, my dad has a 150 inch projector HD thingy in his house.

Doubt that will ever happen here, the window is opposite the wall of with the pictures, then I would have to cut into the dry wall for wiring, move all the surround sound, more dry wall stuff....and the cost of a huge projector....It is a good dream, but will never be a reality ;)



I'm pretty sure I've got my pops sold on the projection home theater in the basement we're in the process of remodeling right now  ;D
'03 A4 1.8TQM
'68 MG C
'06 4Runner

03Indigo

  • Global Moderator
  • Supercar
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2007, 04:37:41 AM »

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2007, 12:34:17 PM »
Don't know about LED/DLP, but I do know that LED is set to replace LCD (and probably plasma as well). Apple is already using the technology for some of their latest displays as it produces a brighter, crisper image than LCD and uses much less energy.

However, watch out for "version 1.0" of any technology. That Apple is using LED displays in production is a good sign of things to come, but I don't know how far along the TV manufacturers are on that path right now. I'm going to look up the DLP/LED and see what I find though.

EDIT: Looks like the main benefit of using LED with the DLP TVs is that an LED lamp will last far longer than a standard bulb and use much less energy. So that could eliminate any concerns about replacing a bulb every couple of years.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 12:40:48 PM by hotani »
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

ianacole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,622
    • http://www.rmsolo.org
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2007, 01:22:19 PM »
EDIT: Looks like the main benefit of using LED with the DLP TVs is that an LED lamp will last far longer than a standard bulb and use much less energy. So that could eliminate any concerns about replacing a bulb every couple of years.

But what happens, what's the cost of replacement, when one does go?
"The corruption of man is followed by corruption of language." -Emerson

Think you're fast? http://www.rmsolo.org

For the road racer in all of us: http://www.nasarockymountain.com

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2007, 04:37:18 PM »
the piece I just read said their life expectancy was 20,000 hours. So if you left it on 24/7 it would last over 2 years. LEDs are not cheap though, so I imagine the cost of replacement would be a bit more than an incandescent lamp.
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

jfrahm

  • Modded
  • ***
  • Posts: 693
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2007, 05:43:30 PM »
Did a little more research over the weekend.

In my case I am not too keen on DLP, I like the thinness of the other technologies and the viewing angle.  You can get a nice 50" DLP for $1k these days though.  $1K seems like a good price for a TV, $1500 feels like a lot, $2000 is probably more than I can justify.  $1250 will get me a decent 47" 1080p LCD, shipped.  $1500 will get me a high quality 50" 720p plasma, shipped.

I am still considering plasma for a few reasons:

Size - 50" is a perfect size for me I think, 52" is a bit too big and 50 > 47
Cost - Excellent prices on 50" plasmas right now,
Contrast - Excellent on Plasmas

Downsides:

No 1080p [possibly not a big deal due to content, viewing distance, etc.]
More heat / power consumption
Screen glare is a problem [possibly a dealbreaker]
Heavy/fragile [but I am not planning to move anytime soon]
Fan noise?

Burn-in does not seem to be an issue nowadays, and the plasma panel buzz is supposed to be taken care of on these newer gen panels too.  The life of the plasma screen is likely to be similar to that of the backlight on an LCD, or something else important will break in 10 years.  I am probably not going to watch whatever TV I buy for 30K hours (watching around 6 hours a day would take 15 years to get to 30k hour 1/2 life of the panel.)

LCD downsides:

Only 46-47" are in my price range just now
Possible backlight buzz
possible banding
possible stuck pixels
Greyish 'black' screen when viewed in a dark room
2001 Audi A8 Quattro 4.2l

hotani

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,954
    • G+
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2007, 05:58:11 PM »
I'll comment on your LCD cons:

backlight buzz: Sometimes just after I turn on the display it will buzz for maybe 5 minutes. It's annoying but it goes away.

dead pixels: you will never see them from your couch. I have one stuck cyan pixel, and the only time I see it is when I'm sitting 1m away at the desk. And the on-screen image has to be just right.

banding: the only time I've seen this was after playing an xbox game for a few hours that was a square format with a colored pattern on the sides. After switching back to computer, I could see some discoloration from the colored background. This went away after a few minutes.

gray screen when showing dark areas: this doesn't bother me, but I suppose it depends on what you are used to. It is not the deep black you might see from a CRT or plasma, but I don't find it distracting.
Quick! Everyone out of the universe!
New: 2006 A4 Avant
Old: 2001 A4 1.8TQM

Cole

  • Heavily Modded
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,035
    • http://rockcrawler.com
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2007, 06:15:01 PM »
Sorry, I have been out riding the R1 and forgetting about the computer! ;D 1,700 miles on it now ;D

You are welcome to come over and check out my TV.

My PS3 Screenname is "Xtremjeepn".


 (hang with me for a second and you will see where this is going)

I watched a documentary on how technology has been advanced by the porn industry on the "G4" channel. I think it is still playing so you might catch it. The porn industry is larger than the regular movie industry in profits and larger than hockey, football and baseball COMBINED!!! :o :o :o

Sony invented "beta-max" and would NOT license the technology to the porn industry. Instead the porn industry used exclusively VHS. This was the first time in history that people could get porn movies at home. Given the size of the industry and the units sold you can see why VHS won out over Betamax tapes.  I doubt history will repeat itself. We will see if Sony learned from this.


Cole Ford
Financial Advisor

copassatguy

  • Stock
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: 03Indigo's Ultimate HDTV Quest
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2007, 06:38:11 PM »
Sorry, I have been out riding the R1 and forgetting about the computer! ;D 1,700 miles on it now ;D

You are welcome to come over and check out my TV.

My PS3 Screenname is "Xtremjeepn".


 (hang with me for a second and you will see where this is going)

I watched a documentary on how technology has been advanced by the porn industry on the "G4" channel. I think it is still playing so you might catch it. The porn industry is larger than the regular movie industry in profits and larger than hockey, football and baseball COMBINED!!! :o :o :o

Sony invented "beta-max" and would NOT license the technology to the porn industry. Instead the porn industry used exclusively VHS. This was the first time in history that people could get porn movies at home. Given the size of the industry and the units sold you can see why VHS won out over Betamax tapes.  I doubt history will repeat itself. We will see if Sony learned from this.



The good thing about Blu-Ray is that Sony does not have any say in what is on Blu... The BDA does... this is who is on the BDA


Not sure that I'd want to see porn in 1080p (nasty closeups of razor burn   :o)
 but it's coming (NSFW)
http://www.cduniverse.com/images.asp?pid=7405858&style=ice&image=front&title=Debbie+Does+Dallas+Again+BRAY
wo things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein