Author Topic: PBR Ceramics  (Read 5006 times)

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jayryan

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PBR Ceramics
« on: October 08, 2007, 06:44:04 PM »
Not too happy with them which surprises me. Maybe I installed them backwards or something. Those of you guys that have had them, what did you think?

They're so bad right now, I may take them off...

I might try bleeding the system again and see if that helps.
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92UrS4

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 06:47:59 PM »
What is so bad, what are you experiencing?

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 06:47:59 PM »

DenverPat

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 06:56:04 PM »
Dude, the shiny side goes AWAY from the rotor.

I've driven them a few times in a couple different cars and was never that impressed with them.  They're better than some aftermarket pads, but I would never buy them for my car.
Did you just get rid of the original pads?  If not, what was in there before?
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jayryan

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 07:01:52 PM »
Dude, the shiny side goes AWAY from the rotor.

I've driven them a few times in a couple different cars and was never that impressed with them.  They're better than some aftermarket pads, but I would never buy them for my car.
Did you just get rid of the original pads?  If not, what was in there before?

haha! I KNEW something was wrong!!

Yeah, they were stockers before. They work great for daily driving, but the moment you have to do any sort of high-speed immediate stoppage, you're look at a few yards of scary, "I have no brakes" feeling.

They just don't stop well at all. They just feel exceptionally soft. I'm not doing any crazy driving this winter, but I was hoping for some better performance. I've heard good things about them...oh well. I'll pick up some Hawk's in the spring. I don't want to waste a set of pads.
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DenverPat

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 07:35:42 PM »
The HPSs aren't any better.  You should be able to sell the PBRs easily.  Get some Pagid Blues.  You'll like 'em.  Your car is fast enough to even warrant some DS2500s, which will resist fade better than the Blues.  Although, I'd be surprised if you could get the Blues to fade on the street.  I never could.
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jayryan

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 08:14:15 PM »
The HPSs aren't any better.  You should be able to sell the PBRs easily.  Get some Pagid Blues.  You'll like 'em.  Your car is fast enough to even warrant some DS2500s, which will resist fade better than the Blues.  Although, I'd be surprised if you could get the Blues to fade on the street.  I never could.

K. Where can I buy them? I didn't see them at ECS. P4VW?
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03Indigo

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 09:11:12 PM »
I had PRB Ceramics on the allroad, and loved them.  I am going back to them on the MINI with my next pad change.  I don't need high temp pads, and want quicker bite, which the PBR's did for me.  I also believe PBR Ceramics are the same thing as Axxis ultimates....so that may help you class them.

DS2500 is a good option, have that on the MINI now, but I don't get the brakes hot enough to really use them functionally...and with the car being so light, it is hard to get them as hot as brakes would get on your B6

Denvernoob

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 12:00:34 AM »
The HPSs aren't any better.  You should be able to sell the PBRs easily.  Get some Pagid Blues.  You'll like 'em.  Your car is fast enough to even warrant some DS2500s, which will resist fade better than the Blues.  Although, I'd be surprised if you could get the Blues to fade on the street.  I never could.

I agree....I am the biggest fan of Pagid pads, despite their cost.  even the "black" compound in their race line is a step above the blues at a marginal increase in price.  these are metallic pads and have nice cold bite...and as temps rise they only get better.  I was running the "orange" compound for 6 months and LOVED them...i NEVER got them to fade...i had my rotors noticably glowing and still had plenty of bite.  Sport blues, as you say, are a nice pad and should be more than adequarte for street use.  I have not run the DS2500 pad, but have heard great things.

one thing i can say is that I ran the axxis ultimate and did not really like them too much to be honest...the pads Pat mentioned are more than enough for your application.  I stay away from ceramics...in particular because of their cold-bite (or lack thereof).
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jfrahm

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 12:31:00 AM »
I am pulling the Pagid pads out of my 968, they were the OEM compond for Porsche and nearly new.  They had excellent bite but were kinda loud and distracting with the top down.  I considered PBR Ceramic / Axxis Ultimate pads but some people found them to be noisy also, although some said they were quiet.  I had a set of Brembo semi metallic pads lying around, I tossed in the front and I got PBR Metallic pads for the rear but have not fitted them yet.

The Pagids made sort of a 'brrrrrrahh' noise usually, and when warm sometimes a loud tenor sax noise.  Since I do not track the car I saw no reason to put up with that.

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jayryan

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 12:58:52 PM »
I had PRB Ceramics on the allroad, and loved them.  I am going back to them on the MINI with my next pad change.  I don't need high temp pads, and want quicker bite, which the PBR's did for me.  I also believe PBR Ceramics are the same thing as Axxis ultimates....so that may help you class them.

Interesting. Our experiences seem to differ quite a bit. I have NO bite at speed. Around town, they work just fine.
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DenverPat

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 02:20:06 PM »
Everything is relative.  What other pads is Jon comparing them to?  What other pads did he use on the allroad?
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jfrahm

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 02:56:32 PM »
I have a set of Mintex Red Box pads on order for the Saab.  I have heard many good things about them, a friend has them on his 928.  Probably not up for serious track duty but fine for autoX and spirited driving.  I do not know when I'll get around to installing them.

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DenverPat

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 03:15:48 PM »
Joel, Mintex Reds are not fine for performance driving.  Mine faded badley on a mountain road after less than a minute of driving quickly.
I would recommend Reds for someone that is more concerned with clean wheels than stopping ability.  The OEM pads on my A4 were better than Reds.
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jayryan

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 04:50:59 PM »
I have a set of Mintex Red Box pads on order for the Saab.  I have heard many good things about them, a friend has them on his 928.  Probably not up for serious track duty but fine for autoX and spirited driving.  I do not know when I'll get around to installing them.

-Joel.

My Mintex Reds were better than my current PBR Ceramics. And I was not happy with the Red Box pads at all. Joel, I agree with Pat. I had a set of Mintex and the fade was so bad it was scary.
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jfrahm

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 05:15:28 PM »
That's interesting, the reviews I read indicated better than stock fade resistance for Mintex Reds.  If stock = organic pads that may well be true I suppose.  I have not had any brake fade issues with the Saab and the pads it came with (I'm sure nothing fancy.)    I will see how the Reds do.  I do try not to use the brakes improperly for spirited driving so that may be a factor.  Get on them hard and get off them, don't tickle them.  I also change my brake fluid a lot(easier than unsticking calipers.)  The only fade issues I had in recent memory were with organic pads (PBR Deluxe) that I put on my old blue 944S2 that I used for street/AutoX.  When I took the car to Second Creek I had fade problems after three laps, but part of that was caused by me, um, using the brakes more than I should have.  Those pads were fine for AutoX and canyon drives but SCR was another story.  I had not intended to track the car when I installed them.
 
I will abuse the Mintex Reds a bit after proper bedding and see what I think.

At any rate I think a street car should not use a pad that requires significant warmup to work well, as the need for maximum braking can be found quite close to home (children or pets in the street) and on the highway where you might not touch your brakes for 30 minutes.

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03Indigo

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2007, 09:18:51 PM »
Everything is relative.  What other pads is Jon comparing them to?  What other pads did he use on the allroad?

I only had OEM pads on the allroad, and the ceramics were much better, but I also pared them with zimmerman slotted and drilled and plated rotors.

DenverPat

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2007, 10:09:21 PM »
The difference you felt is all pad.  I wouln't attribute any differences felt to the rotors.
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03Indigo

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2007, 10:14:08 PM »
Agreed...but the OEM rotors were such crap, I think the slot and drill helped a little with cooling...but I never ran them that hard to get to the point of fade.

I do agree the initial bite was totally the pads, and they were very quiet.


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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2007, 11:20:04 PM »
Very interesting reading....i was thinking of doing the zimmerman / PBR combo on my Allroad....feeling a little nervous now?
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03Indigo

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 12:08:52 AM »
Very interesting reading....i was thinking of doing the zimmerman / PBR combo on my Allroad....feeling a little nervous now?

well, if you do go that route, here is my write up on the fronts.  Had the same set up in the back, but did not bother with a write up on those as they are the same as any rear caliper.

http://www.rmcb5.com/forums/index.php/topic,661.0.html


jfrahm

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2007, 04:18:51 AM »
Zimmerman rotors are great IMO.  I have them on the A8 (front) and the 968.
I do not believe in drilled or slotted discs, except for extreme weight reduction or bling, but to each their own.

As for street pads, I liked the PBR Deluxe pads.  Dusty but I did not care.  I'd rather have dust than noise.   I went with the metallic pads on the 968 to match the Brembo pads I already had in the pile o' parts.  You'd probably be happy enough with either pad.  If you are interested in the ceramics, well I'd have to ask why?  Lower dust but the potential for noise and possibly less cold bite.

If you could care less about dust, do not do trackdays, and would rather change pads twice for every set of rotors, I would consider organic pads.  That is if you do not go down the mountain in top gear while riding the brakes. 
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jayryan

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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 11:36:58 AM »
Well, the PBR's started biting a bit last night. Not sure if it was because I'd already been driving for about 15 minutes around town or not. They felt a bit sticker this morning too...we'll see. They didn't make me feel as nervous as they did when I first put them on. I have no noise and little dust.

I'll see how they do with a few more miles underneath them. I'm heading to Bozeman to get my pic taken for a ski pass in a couple weekends so I'll see how they make me feel on the interstate. I may take a quick trip up the mountain road too.

I'm not unhappy with them today. They don't make me jump for joy or say, "This is a pad to stick with." But I'm not unhappy.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 11:39:35 AM by jayryan »
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Re: PBR Ceramics
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 02:47:25 PM »
JR, I have the PBR Ceramics on my B5 and I felt pretty much the same way at first.  I thought they sucked, bad.

After they bedded in and I got another 1000 (!) miles on them, they started biting a little better.

I did not replace the rotors though, so another option is that you could get your rotors sanded a bit to even the surface.

Now they do pretty well, and are low on dust too, but it just took a LONG time to get to that point.  I really liked the Axxis Deluxes until they got to the end of life when they were dusty and did not bite.

HTH

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