Author Topic: Fluttering sound and low boost?  (Read 4587 times)

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Wyaka

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« on: February 13, 2004, 07:48:49 PM »
Changed my plugs yesterday and took it for a spin without any problems. Then last night I was driving to the store and I got a surge of boost that made the tire spin, after that I could hear a light fluttering from the car when the turbo should be spooling. It feels like it is still working, just not as much boost. Runs fine, no surging at idle, smooth accelleration up to the point that the turbo should spool, and then weaker accelleration. After about five minutes the fluttering went away and it still sounded funny. Anybody have this happen to them or know what it is? Haven't driven it since last night, kinda scared to since I don't want to find out anything is seriously wrong with it.
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ColoradoB5

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2004, 07:55:41 PM »
Steve, my friend, you have run across the infamous Diverter Valve issue.

The stock one is just too weak, and even if unchipped it will wear out after a couple of years.

Fortunately, it is only $30 to replace.  Pick up the Audi TT one with the last part numbers being 710N.  

Bring it by next Saturday and we can help you install it in about 10 minutes.
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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2004, 07:55:41 PM »

92UrS4

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2004, 08:23:53 PM »
Me too my friend, this will be number 4 for me.  I am trying to solve a mystery, mybe Dave (vwbliss) or Brad can shed some light.  Check this post I laid out on Clubb5.com.  And Dave, I called your Audi parts dept that's who is referenced in my post.

http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=670396


EDIT:  If in fact they are the same, Mt States has the valve for $30, McDonald AG Audi has it for $35.

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2004, 09:04:25 PM »
From what I've seen the 710N valves are reliable on stock cars and well suited for slightly modded cars also.  I had a Forge valve on my Golf from the first day I owned it and never ran into any problems.  I would just make sure your vacuum line to the DV is in tact.

As far as the part costing more here.  What can I say, the cost of living must be higher in Littleton than Denver. :)

Dave
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92UrS4

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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2004, 09:11:56 PM »
Dave -

Yeah, I have a 710 N if you read the post on Clubb5., but my inquiry is about if the parts have come to a meeting point and there is no longer a differentiation.

When I bought the 710 N in 2002 it was $35 even though the 710 at Mt States was $30.  What i am trying to determine is if what is known as the 710 N is really the same thing that is sold at the VW parts counter.

I plan on getting an aftermarket because of how many I have gone through, but I need one to tide me over until I do and to reside as a backup in my garage in case it is needed :).

vwbliss

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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2004, 10:27:48 PM »
Exact same part as far as I know.
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Wyaka

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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 12:54:45 AM »
Talking to the person at parts the 710N goes on the Jetta, Beatle, and Golf as stock. The 710 is still stock for all Passats, but it is interchangeable. The parts are not the same according to their list goes, but as far as internals go I wouldn't know. I saw the shift knob for the Beatle turbo with tip....and I like it. Hell of a lot nicer than the Passat stock knob, I wonder if it would fit? I have the Tiptronic Mod now with a carbon fiber stick, looks ok but not as nice as the Beatle knob.
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92UrS4

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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 04:05:47 AM »
The 710N is also supposedly used on teh Audi TT sporting 225HP (IIRC) hence the idea that it holds up better.  The two look identical, but possibley the spring has more tension on the N.  Not sure, at this point I'm not too worried about it.  However, with all the hype surrounding it and such I wanted more to find out for clarification purposes what the deal is.

I know I have the "stock" one on my Passat now, when I pull it tommorrow I'll see if there is an N on it or not.

madigan

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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 02:59:16 PM »
Quote from: "Wyaka"
I saw the shift knob for the Beatle turbo with tip....and I like it. Hell of a lot nicer than the Passat stock knob, I wonder if it would fit? I have the Tiptronic Mod now with a carbon fiber stick, looks ok but not as nice as the Beatle knob.


How much was the Beetle tip shift knob? They had it in stock at the dealer?
mad wagon

92UrS4

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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 03:14:50 PM »
Ok, so I went to MT States (just got back..sorry Dave ;)) And Andrew working the parts counter knew what I was talking about after talking to him yesterday.  he mentioned he found that "supposedly" the 710N (06A 145 710 N) holds pressure better than out stock.  This is the part number for the Bypass Valve used on the Jetta's and Beetle's as Dave mentioned.

So I bought it, and my old one is definitley shot...worse than my first one was back in 2002.

I will install and run this one until I order and aftermarket one.

So again, no real clear eveidence that there is any difference, but hey, I'll have my boost back in about 15 minutes :)

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 03:49:13 PM »
move up to a real DV

stratmosphere or 007 fordged

Wyaka

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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 08:05:02 PM »
My cars MIL light just came on, is it supposed to come on? I'm just freaking out, I hate it when it comes on, I usually have to spend money when it does. The boost has come back to a tolerable level, but sort in and out and runs smooth, but that damn MIL light.
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92UrS4

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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2004, 08:26:31 PM »
How are your hoses? Is everything connected properly and did you install the new DV properly?

Wyaka

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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2004, 08:44:03 PM »
Haven't checked that far, just bought the 710N from MT.States, and waiting to get home to replace it. The MIL light is steady, not flashing, no major loss of power, just intermittent boost. No smoke or odd noises , can't figure it out. When your DV valve went out did you get a MIL light?
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92UrS4

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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 09:06:38 PM »
NO, but if you have vaccum leaks and things of that nature you will. Check the vaccum hose running to the DV to make sure it isn't brittle or split anywhere.  If it feels hard and brittle check the others up around the top of the engine, they will be bad too most likely.


The other thing is, did you just fill up your tank?  If so double check the gas cap, you may not have turned it all the way (until it clicks).  Loosen and retighten the cap, and go for a drive, there is no real figure, but some sort of regular driving will get the light off.

Just sounds like one of the two above, but I could be wrong.

jayryan

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2004, 11:46:00 AM »
I've read several articles and seen some talk that the TT valve holds pressure better when installed in the reverse...This coming from...oh, shoot, I'll have to find that post on CB5
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ColoradoB5

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2004, 12:27:23 PM »
Hey Steve, the MIL/CEL light could come on from the vaccum hoses or the MAF sensor.  Fortunately, VW has decided to warranty these sensors should they fail (I finally submitted my claim a couple of weeks ago for mine), so hopefully, if you do have to spend money, it won't be much.  If you do have to replace the hoses, I would upgrade to ones from www.hosetechniques.com so you won't have to replace them again.

Overall I love this engine.  With the small pains I have had to go through, I have learned a lot and made the car more solid.  No boost leaks in over a year for me.
You can't rehabilitate a fire ant.

Wyaka

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2004, 10:16:12 PM »
I replaced the diverter valve today and cleaned it up a bit. Couldn't find any leaks, rubber still looks good. Cleaned the MAF and the higher idle when you start your car(used to be a choke) actually works again, hasn't done that for about six months now. MIL light is still on, how long does it take for this to clear? Can I reset it without a VAGG, or do I just have to wait? Haven't taken it out yet, but it idles very smooth. Any help or suggestions?
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Wyaka

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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2004, 03:43:52 AM »
Update: Went to autozone to have them pull codes and it's P0171 fuel too lean bank 1, the guy said it was more than likely an O2 sensor. Would this be covered under emissions warranty? or am I gonna have to buy a new one myself? Thanks Winston for the help you've given me to this point, I think I would have curled up in the corner if I had to bring it into the stealership, before figuring it out for myself.
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ColoradoB5

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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2004, 12:14:08 PM »
You bet, Steve.  I do believe that the O2 sensor is covered, but maybe some here will chime in with a definite answer.  

Is the boost back?  The MIL light will go away soon.  I think after starting it 10-20 times it goes away.
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Wyaka

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« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2004, 12:53:53 PM »
I think that the O2 sensor is the reason the MIL light is on. No other codes were there than P0171, will codes clear right after a problem has been fixed? In other words, after replacing my diverter valve and a code for that was present, would the code clear right after I replaced it and drove it for about five minutes, which is the case last night. I wouldn't think so, I thought they were stored until they were manually cleared or a preset time expired without the same problem. The boost seems fine, but it still is in and out a little bit, I'm thinking that the ECU is trying to compensate and the loss of boost is a by product of that. Not sure about any of it...MIL induced ramblings I guess.
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92UrS4

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2004, 02:24:11 PM »
There is some sort of crazy equation for an MIL to turn off on it's own if things are corrected.  It's not set on Driving 5 minutes, starting the car ten times or flooring it.  It is base don what the MIL is and whether or not the car feels the problem has been fixed.  You can manually clear the code with a VAG-COM and see if it comes back on.

We have iffy fuel this time of year too, which can trip up the O2 sensor if it is for some reason being ulta sensitive.  Do you use Premium (91 octane)?  Do you use a reputable gas station?  Stations like the Shamrocks and Sinclairs are known to have "cheap" fuel.  Places like Shell, BP Amoco and Conoco are known for having better fuels.

If you have a cheaper fuel in try and burn up as much of it as you can and then fill up with one of the better ones.  Of course if you already use the good stuff then this info is useless :).

If you;re coming down Saturday I'm sure someone with a VAG-COM and retrieve the code again, just to be sure, and then clear it and that way you can see if it comes on again.  In the interim, if for some reason that MIL starts flashing, stop the car and turn it off, let it sit for a little bit before attempting to drive it again.  If it is related to the O2 sensor and it starts wigging out you could get misfires and potentially damage your emissions system, like the cat.

ColoradoB5

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« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2004, 02:39:48 PM »
Steve,

Also, you can disconnect your battery for about 10 minutes, reconnect it and if the issue is resolved, the MIL light will not come back on.  If it does, Gietl's advice still stands from above ^
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Wyaka

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2004, 03:00:12 PM »
Thanks for all of the information and help, I really appreciate it. I don't like it when things go wrong, but at least I'm learing something new.  :D
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Wyaka

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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2004, 12:39:00 AM »
MIL went off tonight, and the boost is alot stronger than it has been for a long time. Thanks to everyone who chimed in with their two cents, and helped with fixing my car. I love you guys....sniff....sniff   :cry:  uuuhhhhhhh.....yeeeaaaahhhhh  anyway thanks.
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Fluttering sound and low boost?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2004, 02:53:25 AM »
I thought that was a mass code...not an o2 code

o2 would start with an o2 statment in the code....

overnight is better than just ten min for the manual reset, then drive time of a few min recodes the ecu too...

soooooooo many over oil the filter and turbos suck the oil to the mass..I keep a few gallons of 99.99999% or 198.888proff alcohol for cleaning them for the customers..

repeat the code to a dealer or vw junkie...pepboys are not dub specailist...

"CO" gas only...amaco conoco texaco (I will drive on empty to find one)

ethonal sucks but doesnt throw codes.

A boost drop and low power is mass (code supports this IMO)  

even when we chip turbos because the power was pulled to the ecu , you need to drive an hour for the ecu to readjust

cleaning code by pulling the power mean ecu drive time to readapt.

my underinformed two cents :wink: