Author Topic: 24v VR6 issues  (Read 4420 times)

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snickryder

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24v VR6 issues
« on: May 28, 2008, 09:05:12 PM »
So, I brought my GTI in for service today.  I noticed a small fluid leak from the front side of the engine over the weekend and since I have a Certified Pre-Owned car, I brought it right to the dealership.  After checking it over all day I get a call and I'm told that the timing chain cover seal is leaking.  I ask what's involved and they said that it's a 12.5 hour job and they must pull the engine to replace the seal.  I ask if this is covered by my CPO warranty and I'm told that a similar car with the same problem last week was denied coverage!!!  My service writer will talk with the warranty clerk in the morning to verify, but he's not holding his breath. 

12.5 hours of labor at $125/hour = >:(

I guess it's too early to go flying off the handle about this since I haven't been told for sure that it won't be covered, but this isn't the first time things haven't been covered and I'm getting pretty tired of it.  Sorry to vent, but I don't really want to spend $1500+ in labor and more in parts on something that should clearly be covered under the CPO.  Anyone ever had this issue before?  Is the 12.5 hour estimate correct?

Thanks,
Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

ColoradoB5

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 01:14:01 AM »
Wow, Rick, that sure sounds like something they should cover.  I would call VWoA right away and get someone there to chime in on this.  Tell them how long you have had the car and that you got it because of the CPO warranty.

Let us know what happens.

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 01:14:01 AM »

gragravar

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 01:51:41 AM »
WHAT?  I would be ready to throw a fit if they dont cover it. 
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snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 02:26:51 AM »
Haha, like I said I'm trying not to freak out since I don't have a real answer yet.  Just trying to do some research so I know the the hell I'm talking about.  I've been scouring VWVortex and answered some my own questions (assuming the 24v is relatively similar to the 12v VR6) after reading this DIY for timing chain replacement:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409

Looks like there isn't a seal, just some RTV sealant. Also, looks like this is a fairly straight forward operation with the engine in the car, but the transmission and other related items removed.

I'll check with the dealership and post up what I find.

Thanks guys!
Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

masterqi

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2008, 04:31:14 AM »
meh, CPOs (and many EWs for that matter) are just shit. :P


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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2008, 07:47:57 AM »
CPO is not all that it is cracked up to be, Sorry Rick, I hope they come through with you.  My CPO on my allroad also was worthless for suspension issues and other electronic issues.

snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 08:27:36 PM »
Just got back from the dealership and it's official...NOT covered by CPO!!!   >:(

I spoke with my service writer, the service manager and the technician who diagnosed the car.  They all insist that the entire engine needs to be removed to reseal the covers (contrary to some research I've done).  Current estimate is $1562.50 in labor and $294.67 in parts, or $1857.17 plus tax of course. 

I immediately called VW and opened a ticket with them to review the denial of warranty claim and they said they will call me back tomorrow with an answer.  I spoke with finance and got a CPO Warranty Manual and I can't find anywhere where seals of any kind are mentioned, either to be covered or not included. 

My main argument at this point is that the CPO Warranty says "This warrany covers any repair to correct a defect in material or workmanship (except wear and tear), unless excluded in the section titled'What is Not Covered'".  To me, a tube of sealant that was either manually or mechanically used to seal the upper and lower timing chaing covers, that are not moving parts, and then that sealant fails should be considered a defect in material or workmanship.  I just cannot see how this is not covered.

Frustrating!!!   :(

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

gragravar

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 08:57:52 PM »
this may get painful, but stick to your guns and make them show you where in your warranty it says you are not covered.  there is no way a gasket is a wear and tear item so if it is not in the not covered list they need to be paying for it.

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snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 09:04:08 PM »
this may get painful, but stick to your guns and make them show you where in your warranty it says you are not covered.  there is no way a gasket is a wear and tear item so if it is not in the not covered list they need to be paying for it.

I agree, except....

1) There is no physical gasket, this is a tube of sealent that gets applied to the block and then the cover gets pressed on and bolted down.

2) The list of what isn't covered starts with "...the following items, including, but not limited to..." so they cover their butt by not listing everything that isn't covered.

So, I'm going to follow through with VW corporate and see where that leads.  There is NO way the dealership is doing this work.  I've called a friend that runs an indi shop to get some information from him.  If I can't fix the leak by throwing some more sealant at the leaking areas, then I will have an indi shop do the work, period!

Wait and see right now!  Actually, I'm pretty calm but maybe that's because there really aren't many options!  ;)

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

Docwyte

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 01:22:13 AM »
You do NOT need to remove the motor to do this.  You do need to pull the tranny.  On the 12v VR6's, it would start to leak around the time the timing chain guides would need to be replaced, and that's also a good time to put the bolt kit in the tranny.

Your car is so new, none of that will need to be done. 

VW should cover this for you.  If they don't, definately take the car somewhere else!
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snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 07:38:53 PM »
Just wanted to update everyone.  I did call VW Corporate on 5/29 and they did open a case for me to review the situtation.  I finally got a call back today and they said after reviewing all the information that this part should in fact be covered under the CPO and that I should contact my dealer and talk with the Service Manager. 

I was rather excited and called right away.  However, my excitement was immediately muted as the Service Manager said that while VW Corporate says that it should be covered and he would very much like to do the work, he will not perform the service until he has written proof.  I guess the issue is that he has a written statement from the Warranty Dept that says this part is NOT covered and until he gets something from them that says otherwise, he can't authorize the work. 

Hmmmm, how long do you think it will take for the left hand to figure out what the right hand is doing and then decide they should actually be doing the same thing!?!?!   Hint: I won't be holding my breath!  >:(

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

redline

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 08:06:53 PM »
corporate America for you ???

I'll never understand the logic behind the ridiculous layers of bureaucracy in large corporations. I have many experiences from Wal Mart where both the company and the customer would benefit from communication yet some talking head in Bentonville decides it's not "economical".

Enough of the thread jack. I hope you get it worked out soon!
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snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 08:21:09 PM »
Well, maybe I could have held my breath!  Just got a call from my Service Writer.  The work has been approved and WILL be covered under the CPO warranty!  ;D  Interestingly, he specifically mentioned that the other car like mine with the same issue will also be covered.  This after he told me last week that he and the Service Manager went all the way up to VW Corporate and were denied. 

Not sure why they changed their mind now and I don't really care.  It should have been covered in the first place and I'm glad to see they are stepping up and realizing that.  They will be ordering all the parts in the morning and once all required parts are in they will set up an appointment and provide an loaner vehicle.

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

92UrS4

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2008, 08:31:59 PM »
That's great news Rick! Glad it worked out in the end and I hope some faith in VW has been restored. However, no one should have to jump through so many hoops when you should have just been covered in the first place.

snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2008, 08:51:55 PM »
No kidding, I didn't even mention the SEVEN calls that I had to place to VW Corporate to get them to get me answers.  They promised calls back on two seperate occasions and never followed through.  I'd call back and the unlucky person to answer would apologize up and down and then the same thing would happen again.  So, some faith lost and some restored but it definitely works out to a loss overall.   :(

However, I do have another year and 11 months and about 9K miles left on the CPO, so there is plenty of time for them to make ammends.

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

03Indigo

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2008, 11:19:29 PM »
awesome Rick, that is great news.

gragravar

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 12:14:59 PM »
that is great news.  glad they covered it!
Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.  ~Albert Einstein

snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 02:46:10 AM »
Well, it's been almost a month since my last update.  Picked the car up today after dropping it off last Tuesday (7/1).  When I dropped it off they already knew they were a day behind, so figure 2.5 days of possible working time with the Friday holiday.  When I left it I asked if they still intended to pull the entire engine and they said yes.  Today as I was reviewing the paperwork I was informed that, "From lesson's learned from the first car, the didn't have to pull the engine afterall."  Wow, it's amazing...go figure!  ;) 

Anyway, the car feels good and tight.  They either cleaned the head gasket like mad or replaced it, not really sure but it looks like new.  I need to go through the part numbers and see what they replaced.  No leaking that I can see but I'll give it a couple days to heat cycle and check it again.  The only thing I noticed right away was the shifter.  It is very tight/hard to get into first and third gear.  I know it's only been a week, but I don't remember 1st/3rd being that hard.  The rest of the gears feels normal.  Could be that with the tranny out and then back in that the linkage has been adjusted and is now "normal", but it feels different.  Everything else feels great though.

Still sucks that it took this much effort to get something covered, but definitely glad that VW stepped up and took care of it.  Hopefully there aren't anymore issues like this over the remaining 10K miles/10 months I have left on the CPO.  On the bright side, I've got just about new everything under the car so I should be all set for a while!  :D

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com

03Indigo

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 03:01:49 AM »
nice Rick, glad it is done and you are happy with the work. It is such a great feeling to have that kind of issue taken care of :)

DenverPat

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 12:14:15 PM »
wOOt Rick wOOt
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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 12:49:39 PM »
Rick,

On the shifter, are you happy with the setting, or not.  The shift cable alignment process is fairly easy, I can help you with it this weekend if you want.
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snickryder

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Re: 24v VR6 issues
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 04:46:05 PM »
Rick,

On the shifter, are you happy with the setting, or not.  The shift cable alignment process is fairly easy, I can help you with it this weekend if you want.

I haven't really decided yet.  I thought I would drive it for a couple days and if I get annoyed I would change it.  If not, then I must be imagining things since I was driving a slush-box for a week!   ???   Thanks for the offer though, I'll let you know.

Rick
Rick Snyder | 2003 GTI VR6 | 1997 BMW M3 Sedan | www.Snymo.com