Author Topic: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad  (Read 5246 times)

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evil_O

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Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« on: June 25, 2008, 10:43:07 AM »
Looking to get a different suspension setup for the S4.  I am not happy with the current setup it has... no worries this is my ONLY complaint about the car.  Todd took a quick peak at it and it appears the original owner just put new springs in it with the stock sport shocks.  Not too bad but I would like something shall we say, a bit better?

With that said, I am looking at several (with STaSIS out of the question - I think there are suspension setups out there that at a minimum, will save me $500 dollars AND be light years ahead of what I have now) suspensions.  Here is the short list:

KW-V3 - $2048.29
H&R Street Perf. Coilover - $1258.00
FK Konig sport coilovers (dampening adj.) - $1249.95
PSS9 Coilover kit - $1695.95

Keep in mind, I am doing coilovers to get my exact look dialed in while maintaining ride quality.  As far as adjusting... I am just not sure it will happen.  I know the Koni Yellows (FK coilovers) are adjustable from the top, so it would be a one time adjustment as it does not appear I can get to the perch from inside the engine bay (unless I am missing something)....

I will NOT be tracking the car.  So I guess I don't want to "overdo" my needs.  Hence the reason I am not going STaSIS.  I have heard great things about STaSIS but I just can't justify the 500 over the KW-V3.

In the end, I guess I am just looking for experience with and thoughts surrounding my short list.  I think I would be happy with any of them... especially over what I have now.

If it helps... I am really leaning towards the H&Rs.  Good price, good name, install, adjust height, and I would be done....

Thoughts?
2006 S4 Sprint Blue
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jayryan

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 12:01:35 PM »
If it helps... I am really leaning towards the H&Rs.  Good price, good name, install, adjust height, and I would be done....

Thoughts?

Go for the H&R's then. I added a B7 rear sway with my stock sport suspension and I couldn't be happier :) Sits perfect for me and handles like a dream.
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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 12:01:35 PM »

DenverPat

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 12:34:22 PM »
Get good shocks matched to the springs.
If you're not going to adjust the coilovers, you're probably going to have a better ride and balance with springs/shocks.  Honestly, what other benefits are there of coilovers vs. a good spring/shock combo?
Getting coilovers dialed in is critical to getting the most out of them.  Whithout that, they're a waste.
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 12:41:10 PM »
Get good shocks matched to the springs.
If you're not going to adjust the coilovers, you're probably going to have a better ride and balance with springs/shocks.  Honestly, what other benefits are there of coilovers vs. a good spring/shock combo?
Getting coilovers dialed in is critical to getting the most out of them.  Whithout that, they're a waste.

Ok... How would I figure out what shock to go with for those springs?  I am not sure what the ratings are... maybe just get Koni Yellows to adjust the dampening??  The benefit to the COs would be getting the ride height right where I want it... and having everything matched rate wise.
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92UrS4

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 12:51:12 PM »
Have you seen the ride height on my UrS? I have to say it is perfect. Sure it might be a little low, I have to be careful, but the car "looks" right to me and boy does it handle well.

CO's are great, but as mentioned, if you aren't actually going to get the most out of them, why spend the money? You can go with different springs and shocks as mentioned. It could also be that even if there is a new setup on the car, possibly they didn't really match up parts too well.

Depending on the brand, there should be info printed or stamped on the springs so you can find out what you have and work from there.

Back in the day I did run some Eibach Sports on my old Passat with the stock shocks. Not the ideal setup, I didn't have the money to buy both and the springs were a steal. The car rode and handled better but not as good as it would have had a matched up some better shocks.

Anyway, as Pat mentioned, don't rule out the standard spring/shock setup just yet. Spend a little more time researching what kind of drop certain springs give as well as which combo gives the best feel. Are you looking for something more rigid or does a softer ride suit you? Are you just trying to close up any wheel gap or do you want the car almost scraping the ground, things like that.

Docwyte

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 01:13:56 PM »
KW V3's stink.  I had them on my old S4.  Blew out the LF strut after only 6 months.  KW refused to send me another one, even when I offered to pay a core charge.  I had to send the strut back to them to have them repair it, which took a month.  If I hadn't bought another suspension to put on the car, the car would've been down for an entire month.

That's completely unacceptable.
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ianacole

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 01:45:21 PM »
Does Ground Control make a coil over sleeve kit for the S4?  You can use this in conjunction with a good set of shocks and springs to get CO functionality, maybe even on the current shocks.  The kit comes with a spring perch with a threaded sleeve for ride height adjustment, and new springs.  A much cheaper approach to achieve a desired ride height.
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snickryder

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 02:44:00 PM »
maybe just get Koni Yellows to adjust the dampening??

Just to clarify, the Koni Yellows only offer rebound adjustment.  While most people look at this as hard/soft adjustment, I find it better to look at it as slow/fast.  With the right spring rate these can be very nice, but if you don't know the spring rates you might be shooting in the dark.  However, Konis are rebuildable and can be re-valved.  A friend with a 2000 S4 has custom valved Konis that are VERY nice.  He's got a local guy that can rebuild/re-vavle them.  I can pass along his contact info if you decide to go the Koni route.

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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 07:30:37 PM »
Thanks for all the good info guys.  I ran up to the local shop and they pulled a tire for me... this is what I found:

H&R springs with the following numbers stamped on them: 29257 VA |F|

Anyone have any idea what spring rate these are?  I am going to do some searching and see what I can find... and then get some corrected shocks.  Stock ones are in there now...

Talk about money savings... lol  Thanks guys!!!
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 07:49:29 PM »
According to Shox.com's site... this part number 29257 is the H&R sport spring.  It appears to me the Koni Yellows will be a good match with this spring - as it is typically included in the sport package. 

I just can't figure out why in the world he would not have put in the shocks at the same time??? ???

Looks like I can pick them up for about $600.  Those will be going in ASAP.

I am excited about this because I have run this setup before and liked it very much.  Just ask Jon how fun it was to put in my '04 4MO Passat  :o
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03Indigo

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 08:21:56 PM »
it was soooooo not fun.  That day in history was the suck!!!  Your suspension, my 2 turbos blowing.  All was a complete loss that day.

PS...got your message, I was up in Westminster this morning, sorry I missed you.  Headed out to dinner in a few tough, maybe we can GTG in the next couple of weeks for lunch.  I wanna see the car.

evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 08:45:57 PM »
it was soooooo not fun.  That day in history was the suck!!!  Your suspension, my 2 turbos blowing.  All was a complete loss that day.

PS...got your message, I was up in Westminster this morning, sorry I missed you.  Headed out to dinner in a few tough, maybe we can GTG in the next couple of weeks for lunch.  I wanna see the car.


Lemme know and we will see what we can work out for a G2G
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"I hate cops."

evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 08:54:14 PM »
OK... just got off the phone with H&R (Stephanie).  I wanted to double check with H&Rand make sure they are the CORRECT springs... and they are.

With all that said, they recommended I call and speak with Mike at AWE about shocks. I really like the ride height of the spring that is in the car... just don't like the mild bouncy bouncy. So... with all of that said... it looks like I am going to stay with the springs and get new shocks. For me, I think this will be a good setup. I just don't see myself adjusting the suspension at all once it is in... and did I mention I like how she is sitting now?

Randy is also looking into this for me - Thanks Randy -!

I guess within the next couple of days or so I will know what I will be putting in... but on a more pressing need... I need to get my brakes done in a bad bad way.  So bad, I am going to have to let her sit until I can get them done.  I just don't want to risk losing the rotors.  A buddy of mine at Big-O pulled the wheels and said the rotor is at 1.162 (if I remember right) but the pad is almost gone.  I will be good on this set of rotors for another run... but that is it. 

Dam I need brakes ASAP.
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92UrS4

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 08:57:02 PM »
Sounds like you've done the right thing here and probably saved yourself a pretty penny. Yeah, it would have made sense for the PO to do both, but like I said in my earlier post, I did something similar and I was happy with what I had at the time even though it wasn't perfect.

I can;t wait to check this car out one of these days, the pictures were great but I bet it is far better in person.

03Indigo

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 09:14:35 PM »
screw the shocks....do an airbag set up :D  Big pimpin...yo!!!

evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 09:41:40 PM »
I can;t wait to check this car out one of these days, the pictures were great but I bet it is far better in person.

I can't even tell you how the pics do not do this car justice.  Maybe we can all do a Sonic night sometime during the week...  Maybe a Wed or Thurs night?  We could do the Sonic right by Jon's house in Parker...

Anyone?  Anyone?
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 09:42:46 PM »
screw the shocks....do an airbag set up :D  Big pimpin...yo!!!

Screw bags... I am gonna start hittin switches bitches!
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 09:44:43 PM »
Sounds like you've done the right thing here and probably saved yourself a pretty penny. Yeah, it would have made sense for the PO to do both, but like I said in my earlier post, I did something similar and I was happy with what I had at the time even though it wasn't perfect.

Agreed.  At times I bet this would be a perfect setup.  But for this car and the money he put into mods (carbon fiber, ECS two piece rotors, etc.), I don't have the foggiest why he didn't do the suspension right.  IF.. and that is a big IF money was an issue... don't buy the $750 dollar carbon fiber spoiler and get the RIGHT suspension.. lol.  But to each his own I guess.
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 09:53:44 PM »
Get good shocks matched to the springs.
If you're not going to adjust the coilovers, you're probably going to have a better ride and balance with springs/shocks.  Honestly, what other benefits are there of coilovers vs. a good spring/shock combo?
Getting coilovers dialed in is critical to getting the most out of them.  Whithout that, they're a waste.

Good suggestion Pat.  As you can see... I sort of followed your advice.  Now... just huntin' for the right dampers.
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03Indigo

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2008, 12:51:51 AM »
I could do a Wednesday night GTG...I am totally down for that.  Sonic would be a decent location, we have met there before.

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2008, 03:14:21 AM »
Good suggestion Pat.  As you can see... I sort of followed your advice.  Now... just huntin' for the right dampers.

Glad to hear things are working out for you.  I can tell you first hand, I've had a couple different sets of springs in my car, and the shocks made a bigger difference.  The previous owner of your car likely installed different springs without dampers because s/he was more concerence about looks than performance.  You've already got the looks, so just adding the performance (shocks) without paying x2 for the looks is the smart way to go, especially if you didn't plan on corner-balancing the coilovers.  I'm looking forward to what you think about the performance and ride after you get the shocks installed.
Be sure you do some research and talk to someone that really knows about the settings of the Konis on your specific model of car.  So frequently people spend money on stuff and don't have it dialed in to really get the most out of it.  It sounds like you're on the right track.   :)
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evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 03:16:58 PM »
Be sure you do some research and talk to someone that really knows about the settings of the Konis on your specific model of car.  So frequently people spend money on stuff and don't have it dialed in to really get the most out of it.  It sounds like you're on the right track.   :)

Did just that....

I was a little disappointed this morning when I talked with AWE. Not in them but rather the options that are out there. They were hoping to fit the car with Bilsteins but as it turns out Bilstein does not have an application for my car. They (of course) are not big fans of Koni. With that said they recommended COs... either H&R or PSS9s.

Not liking that answer, I called and spoke with Koni. They indicated their sports are a great setup (of course) with the H&R sports.

Talking with Koni about the drop, car, and my driving, they recommended adjusting the shock with 3/4 to 1 full turn (from full soft). If I set them on full hard 2-2.5 turns, I might rattle my teeth out.

Sooooo..... I think next week, I will be ordering up a set of Koni Yellows.

Is anyone currently running the Yellows with the H&R Sport Springs? If so... how soft/hard do you have it set? What is the ride like???

TIA
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hotani

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2008, 03:39:15 PM »
I'm running koni coilovers and have them set 50% up front and 75% in the rear. I'm happy with the ride and handling now, but it took a couple of adjustments to get there. I'm not sure how my springs compare to the H&Rs, but should be similar.
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DenverPat

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2008, 04:55:03 PM »
Jeremy, you may want to search the appropriate forum on AudiWorld.  I'm sure there are a bunch of people there that have gone through what you are going through.  They will be able to give you first-hand experience.
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Eric18T

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2008, 11:12:59 PM »
I 2nd pats opinion about the coilovers. I have the STaSIS Track setup on my A4 and a year and a half later, 3 alignments, 2 sets of spring rates (hyperco), 1 revalve on the front shocks (due to higher spring rates), countless install/un-install hours and several days at the track and i 'think' i finnally have them setup as close as i will every get them. Is it perfect, probably not, But i had to finally settle where i am at. I had enough. I had to pick a balance of street and track use.

Am i happy now? Yep, but it has been a long PIA. If i was to do it again and knew i would never auto-x or do any track days i would just get a set of Koni shocks w/ a decent matched spring (H&R or Vogtland) and call it a day. The H-Sport  bars make a HUGE difference on the b6 chassis.

next weekend i am back to NHMS  for a 2 day HDPE to try out the new sway bars. i am hoping these don't screw up the balance too much. After that i need another set of tires.  ;D

The AW B6S4 forum has alot of info.

evil_O

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2008, 11:29:50 PM »
I 2nd pats opinion about the coilovers. I have the STaSIS Track setup on my A4 and a year and a half later, 3 alignments, 2 sets of spring rates (hyperco), 1 revalve on the front shocks (due to higher spring rates), countless install/un-install hours and several days at the track and i 'think' i finnally have them setup as close as i will every get them. Is it perfect, probably not, But i had to finally settle where i am at. I had enough. I had to pick a balance of street and track use.

Am i happy now? Yep, but it has been a long PIA. If i was to do it again and knew i would never auto-x or do any track days i would just get a set of Koni shocks w/ a decent matched spring (H&R or Vogtland) and call it a day. The H-Sport  bars make a HUGE difference on the b6 chassis.

next weekend i am back to NHMS  for a 2 day HDPE to try out the new sway bars. i am hoping these don't screw up the balance too much. After that i need another set of tires.  ;D

The AW B6S4 forum has alot of info.

B6???? c'mon Eric... it is a B7.. hehehehe... j/k.  I am thinking I will be going the way of the Konis.  I have one other person checking on availabilty of Bilstein sports... but if they don't have em... Konis. 

Thanks for the info though on your experience.  It does help.
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Eric18T

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2008, 11:34:56 PM »
B6???? c'mon Eric... it is a B7.. hehehehe... j/k. 

B6 or B7, it doesn't matter. Same suspension between both cars. One (B7) just has the big chromey grill and the other one has classic character (b6) 

maybe i am just biased..  :)

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2008, 12:34:35 PM »
B6 or B7, it doesn't matter. Same suspension between both cars. One (B7) just has the big chromey grill and the other one has classic character (b6) 

maybe i am just biased..  :)

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2008, 11:01:13 PM »
Get good shocks matched to the springs.
If you're not going to adjust the coilovers, you're probably going to have a better ride and balance with springs/shocks.  Honestly, what other benefits are there of coilovers vs. a good spring/shock combo?
Getting coilovers dialed in is critical to getting the most out of them.  Whithout that, they're a waste.

I don't know that I would say that.  I like my KW V2's much better than my current Bilstein/Neuspeed setup and they didn't rub or go bad.  They were very well made and I really like the adjustability of the fronts, but the rears, I feel, could have gone lower.

I would say my only complaint is that my V2s were not dampening adjustable, just height and rebound.  If I did them again, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the V3s.

That aside, I don't have any other experience with any other setups, but good luck!

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Re: Need thoughts/suggestions.... good or bad
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2008, 07:19:55 AM »
Jeremy, you may want to search the appropriate forum on AudiWorld.  I'm sure there are a bunch of people there that have gone through what you are going through.  They will be able to give you first-hand experience.

I have a new thread going over there in the regional forum.  I am hoping someone may have that setup and would be willing to give me a test ride.
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