CROOKED DEALER WARNING! How McDonald Volkswagen in Littleton CO Screwed Me Over

[Rappy]

Today McDonald Volkswagen at 6000 S. Broadway in Littleton, Colorado illegally screwed me out of $330.  I'd like to get the word out to as many Volkswagen fans as possible so they can avoid running into the same lying and swindling that I have had to put up with.  Here's what happened:


I purchased a 2003 Jetta TDI wagon from McDonald on December 20th.  It had 80,000 miles and a "clean bill of health" from the dealership.  Shortly after I purchased the car, approximately 7-10 days later, the check engine light came on.  I took it back to the dealership to see what the problem was.

I was informed that it would be $99.95 for diagnosis of the problem.  I told that service person that I had just recently purchased the car, but it didn't seem to matter.  I did get him to just run the codes on it for me.  The codes said that glow plugs 2 and 4 were sporadic, and they informed me that it could be the glow plugs or the harness.  The service manager on duty said that it would cost between $300-$400 to fix, depending on what the problem was.

I asked my salesman, Frank Acosta, if I would be responsible for the repair on a vehicle I had just purchased.  He spoke with someone at the dealership and told me that they would "meet me halfway" on the price; a verbal assumption of about $150-$200 based on the figure they estimated to me earlier.  I still thought it was rather rediculous to pay for a vehicle repair on something I just purchased, so I told him I would think about it, never intending to go through with the repair if I had to pay.

Nearly two months went by since the purchase of my car, and the engine light remained on.  My temp tags were just about up, so it was time to get the car registered.  I went to the DMV, and they said they couldn't register the car, because there was no emissions on record for it.  I told her that I knew the car had emissions, because there was a new-looking emissions sticker on the windshield, and the windshield had been replaced by the dealership so I knew they had to have it done.  She insisted that she had no record at all, and issued me a 10-day temp so I could resolve the issue.

I called McDonald back and informed them that the state didn't have the emissions records on file and asked if they had them.  They said that they did not.  They had either lost the paperwork on the car, or failed to file it properly.  They told me that they were responsible to provide the emissions on the car (which they are, by Colorado Law), and to go get a new emissions test done.  They would then cut me a reimbursement check for the $55 it costs for a diesel emissions test, and then I would be able to get my plates.  Sounds easy, right?

I set up and appointment at the shop they had done the emissions at previously, and arrived right on time.  After they pulled my car in, the technician came out and asked how long my engine light had been on.  I told her about 7 weeks.  She then informed me that they cannot legally pass a vehicle on an emissions test if the check engine light is on.  I asked if they could just clear the code and run it.  She went and got her boss and he told me that was not possible.  He did inform me, though, that by Colorado Law, McDonald was responsible for the vehicle to pass emissions to sell it to me, and that they should be responsible to fix it.

I went back to the dealership and informed them of the situation.  I spoke with the sales manager Jason.  I told him that I didn't feel like I should be responsible for a repair of something that happened directly after purchasing the vehicle, that was now preventing me from getting proper registration.  That's when Frank (the salesman) came in and said something to the effect of "Oh, he agreed to pay half of the cost of the repairs, he's just been too busy to get the vehicle in to have the work done."

Frank, if I had agreed to it, I would have taken the damned thing in weeks ago.

After he left I told Jason that I don't feel like I should pay anything, now especially since their mistake with the emissions paperwork was preventing me from getting plates on my car.  He sort of nodded, like he would take care of it, and then we went into the service area.  We set up a time to have my car fixed on a Saturday, Feb 28th at 8:30 am.  I figured that it was resolved.

When I brought the vehicle in, the service rep printed out a sheet that had the $99.95 diagnostic fee on it.  I told him that I thought that was all being taken care of, so he crossed it out and said he would have to ask somebody in sales, who wouldn't be in for another half hour.  He told me that they would call me with information.  My ride was waiting so I headed out.

The call never came.

I stopped by the dealership at about 2 pm to get an update.  They told me that they believed the problem was the glow plugs (really?) and that's where they were at that time.  I went on about my day, hoping they would get to it.

I got a call at about 2:30 pm to inform me that the "repairs were underway" and that the car would be ready by the end of the day.  I received another call at approximately 3:30 reporting to me that the car was done and ready to go.  They told me that they had to replace all four glow plugs, and the bridge that they plugged into.  The total bill for the repair was $660.  So much for the $300-$400 I was quoted earlier.  But, they were going to "meet me halfway" with the repairs, so my total was "only" $330.

 I told the service manager that I was under the impression that I was not going to have to pay for the repair, and that yes, I did want it 100% covered.  He told me he would ask the sales manager and call me back.  The call came back a few minutes later, and he said that they said no, that's the best they would do.  My blood begins to boil.

Remember, it's AGAINST COLORADO LAW for them to charge ME for repairs that will get a vehicle that they are selling me to pass emissions.  I am NOT responsible for their mishandling of paperwork that got me into this mess.

My brother drove me back to the dealership.  We both went inside (I wanted a witness to what they were telling me).  They brought out the paperwork and explained to me that they had replaced 4 glow plugs and an $87 bridge (remember, this was done in about an hour based on their calls).  Somehow this adds up to $660, making the "half" amount on par with the original estimate of $300-$400.

As I handed the guy my credit card, I told him, "You are aware, that by charging me for this you are breaking the law." 

That's when the goon next to him, apparently his superior, I think his name was Keith Fletcher, jumped up and said "I would advise you to not answer that question and just process the transaction."

I told them that was fine, but they were indeed breaking the law.  Little Keith got a little smart at this point, and said, "Well, I can sit here and tell you..." then he caught himself.

I jumped right in, though and said "Yeah you can tell me a lot of things, can't you?"  I was staring daggers, and his eyes got really big, like a deer in the headlights.  He then hastily retreated to his station.  It was hilarious.

They gave me the keys and I got my car and pulled it around to the sales area.  I wasn't done with them yet.  I felt completely screwed, robbed, swindled, whatever you want to call it, and I had to let them know that.  I went inside, where they were all congregated in a little room, doing nothing.  I went up to Jason (sales manager) and told him, "I just paid $330 to fix a car that you sold me so it would pass emissions, and that is illegal."   

The heads started bobbling, Frank started jabbering, when some woman stood up and introduced herself as the "Used Car Manager" and asked if she could speak to me elsewhere.  I followed, and explained everything to her.

She was incredibly snobby.  Now remember, I am extremely pissed off, but I am not throwing a fit, either.  She then proceeded to tell me one of the biggest, blatant lies anyone has ever told me to my face.  It went something like this:

"The law says that if we sell you a vehicle, you have three days for it to pass emissions.  If it doesn't pass in that period of time, we are required to repair it at our expense.  If it fails after the three day period, you are responsible for the emissions on the vehicle.  That's what the law says."

Uhm, what?  Why in the hell would anybody be in an emissions place, within three days of purchasing the car, when it is REQUIRED THAT THE DEALER GET EMISSIONS ON THE VEHICLE BEFORE THEY CAN SELL IT TO YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I also told her how they estimated $300-$400 to fix the car, and the total was $660.  She said that Frank told her that everyone told me that the repairs would cost between $600-$700.  Another lie!  Of course, how can I argue with it, if it's just a "he-said, she-said" thing?  I can't!

Either way, I went to another Volkswagen dealer, Osborne, and spoke with a sales manager there.  They told me that I was indeed in the right, that I was not responsible for McDonald's mishandling of the paperwork, or the resultant repairs to get the car to pass emissions.  She gave me some specific instructions on what to do to remedy the situation, which I obviously am going to do.

But not before I trash these crooked, lying assholes everywhere I can first.

[masterqi]

That sucks. But it's not news to us. Unfortunately you didn't have a chance to check here first, especially:

Stay away from McDonald Automotive VW for service!
http://www.rmcb5.com/forums/maintenance/stay-away-from-mcdonald-automotive-vw-for-service!/

Here's another thread and I'm sure there are many more where that came from:
http://www.rmcb5.com/forums/general-discussion/maf-appetite/msg69055/#msg69055

Hope you get some satisfaction with Osborne (and I'm guessing VoA) and don't ever take your car to McDonald unless you want to get it back in worse condition than when you brought it in!

[03Indigo]

This is not a new story...but being that it is your first and only post to the community, not sure how to feel about it.

Using the internet to bash someone without introducing yourself to our community or contributing to the site is just bad form.  I understand you may want to help out other members, possibly, but it more feels like all you want to do is cause them (McDonald) harm or hurt their business (a vendetta), more so than helping out the community by offering a warning.  But that is just my opinion and observations from seeing posts like this.

As masterqi pointed out, there are already other threads on this topic, maybe you should have introduced yourself first, and then added onto those instead of throwing down a novel in your first post?

Good luck with your situation.

[92UrS4]

Rappy -

Sorry to hear about your situation, but there are a few details left out. Like, was this a CPO or was it sold As-Is? If it is As-Is it's just that, the dealer is not responsible for a CEL coming on a week after purchase.

Now, they are required to sell you something that can pass emissions and should have provided an emissions test document with the car. If the CEL didn't come on for 7 days, and you chose to drive around with it for 53 days of your 60 day temp tag then that worries me.

I do believe the dealer screwed themselves by not providing the emissions documentation. If they had then there would be no legal claim on your part. It does suck to buy a used car and have something go wrong, but when something is sold As-Is, you are buying it just as stated. There is no warranty.

I strongly dislike McDonald AG, and would point most people in a different direction if they are looking to buy or service a car.

I'm not doubting your claims at all, but you need to go back and review your situation. If anything you might get lucky because they failed to provide the emissions documentation. It's possible the car was fine when you bought it, and the glow plug harness did not go until the CEL came on. One of my friends has a 2000 TDI Golf and when his harness went it was the same, just all of a sudden.

Best of luck with your situation, in the future, based on your post here and other VW/Audi forums I would recommend you buy something with a warranty.

[redline]

That's a real disappointment to hear, I use their Audi and VW divisions for parts on a regular basis and they have always treated me well on that front. I obviously won't be buying any cars from them though.

[Kraylon]

I have only used mcdonald auto for parts and I only deal with one parts salesman named Mario he is not the a audi guru but a no B.S. sales man and is more then willing to help.

I never have took my audi to the dealer, since I never have trusted a dealership since I worked at one back in 98. The only tech that works on my car besides me is Randy at autobahn since I feel that I can trust him and his opions.

[aowhaus]

I've had very poor service from McDonald before, so I understand your frustrations.
 
I've given McDonald another chance, but after 3 stikes I switched to Emich (formerly Mountain States) and was very satisfied with their service and courtesy and have been going to them ever since with my Passat.  I have been recommending Emich confidently and warm others about McDonald.

I strongly suggest filing a complaint to VWoA and the BBB, as McDonald has a undisputed bad reputation and they should get the message.
Hopefully Osborne should help you out.

[bigjohnson27]

I've Been a customer of Mcdonald VW and Audi both since back when they were Continental VW and have had very good luck overall. It seems to me that when someone has an axe to grind they do it on forums. Not that if you had a bad experience you shouldn't be able to let others know but I just don't see many posts from people that had good experiences anywhere. So this begs the question is every dealer bad or do most people that bother to post just have issues in general and they feel better by ripping someone else?

[Spicoli]

something always seems fishy when 2 noobs (1 post each) post in a bashing thread.

[Eric18T]

something always seems fishy when 2 noobs (1 post each) post in a bashing thread.

i hear ya. Since neither one has been seen since..

[92UrS4]

Always, probably because they did searches for McDonald VW and found this site. Bow to the power of the Google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonald+vw&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[masterqi]

I just don't see many posts from people that had good experiences anywhere.

Guess you haven't searched for Autobahn Premier Service!

So this begs the question is every dealer bad

Pretty much, yes.

[bigjohnson27]

It is funny how you seem concerned when someone new posts a comment that does not fall in line with your own personal view but would not question new input that goes along with your own agenda. Let's not kid anyone here, everyone out there has an agenda of some type. It may be validation of there own view or maybe a simple desire to help someone else or someone with an axe to grind for whatever reason. Bottom line is that the agenda still exists. Mine is simple, I get tired of people taking the time to complain but not taking the time to say when they have had a good experience. What's yours?

[92UrS4]

I have no agenda, this site has no agenda, but you clearly do. People that post on this site are free to do so as long as it is within reason. I have no doubt in my mind some VW and Audi owners have great success using this dealer for their service needs. However, the original poster in this thread is not the only person on this forum to have had an issue with the dealership.

We never heard back from the original poster and it sounds more like a poor choice on their part. On the other hand, you;ve come here clearly to stir the pot. That is your choice, but if you continue to dig up old dead threads to do so, or continue to make false claims about members on this forum yout time here will be short lived.

So far, your only posts are about a dealership, do you even own a VW? What kind, What power plant, trany, options color mileage year tired wheels interior color, interior material audio mods....get the picture.

This is an auto enthusiast site, there will be posts from time to time about the bad, but there are plenty of posts about the good.

If you had taken the TIME to search for McDonald you would find posts talking about the good as well, but you chose not to. Take your AGENDA elsewhere if you have nothing constructive to provide here. This is your first, last and only warning.

I know you're local and we'd love to have you a part of this community, just get all your ducks in a row before spewing false claims about agendas.

[bigjohnson27]

It nice to see that you actually read what's posted. To answer your questions about my rides they are as follows. I have owned and driven VW and Audi's for approc 20 years. The list is as follows: 1983 GTI Silver(got me hooked), 90 90Q, 91 200q 20v (Chipped, big blower, coil overs, Brembos, MTM) many laps at 2nd creek in this one, 93 90q, 96 a4q sport1.8t (chipped, exhausted, dropped 1.5),2000 s4 (lowered 1.25, Chipped, Miltek turbos back, Cold air, Porsche big reds), 2003 GTI 1.8t (flashed, Cold air, miltek 3" down to 2.5" turbo back, dropped 1.75, Wilwoods all 4 corners, PS2's 18"). I still own the 03 GTI and 00 S4. 
On your advise I reran MCdonald VW on google and only came up with bad stuff on old threads so the good stuff seems to not come up without knowing what you are looking for. Seems to back up my point.

[92UrS4]

That is one heckuva nice list of cars. We hosted some track days back when SCR was still open. Sure miss that place, good bang for the buck. How do you like the big reds on your S? Your S already came with pretty beefed up brakes from the factory, how big was the difference when you switched? I enjoy my big reds, but of course they come at a big cost in the long term.

Google can be deceiving because the rank of links is based on not only the key word search but clicks, age of the links, activity etc etc etc. I think that high ranking result is a couple years old now so I'm surprised it's still there. If people keep searching for that dealer and clicking that link, it will keep it's high rank.

If you use the search on this site you get about 4 pages of results. You will mostly find people with good purchase experiences. Which has really been something they have been good at. Sales. Yes, there will be negative posts on service, and maybe it's a bad thing being an enthusiast because an enthusiast tends to stay current on TSB's, recalls and maintenance trends (like the failing CPs back in ~2002).

Any rhyme or reason behind why people post they way they do (including myself), nope. Beyond the dealer subject of this thread there are plenty of positive posts about other dealers and independent shops in the area. If the dealers worked like the indie's do then there would be a lot less of those negative posts out there.

This site is not about drama or getting into internet spats, so take what you want from the posts, but each poster (including myself ) is responsible for their content good or bad. If they fabricate the information, and we find out it's fabricated the posts get removed. We have no rwal way of knowing if someone is telling the truth or not, but being that good natured people do exist we give everyone the benefit of the doubt initially.

This thread would have been locked and your posts removed and you banned if we had an agenda. There is no agenda from me, and I run the site. If there is an agenda from another poster like the one you seem to have then that's your issue, not mine. If it creates a hostile environment or if it appears this site is being used as someone's tool to spread their own agenda they will no longer be welcome here. We have a strict advertising policy for this very reason.

Feel free to stick around, introduce yourself at future GTG's. We will surely be having some detail and garage days coming up as well as some BBQ's. As far as I'm concerned this is a dead topic. The OP never came back to update on their situation, you resurrected this thread, it now consumes the most recent post list and will surely be more visible in google.

So maybe you agenda is really to promote negative threads. I'm just kidding on that last comment obviously.

[bret]

omg sorry i have to do it http://begthequestion.info/

welcome to the boards btw

[bigjohnson27]

I am happy with the big reds, I scored them form a friend in the Porsche world at a price that was too good to pass on. That being said I think the Wilwoods on the GTI offer far more bang for the buck.

Thanks for letting have my say. Dead with me as well.

Nice link.

[Eric18T]

It is funny how you seem concerned when someone new posts a comment that does not fall in line with your own personal view but would not question new input that goes along with your own agenda. Let's not kid anyone here, everyone out there has an agenda of some type. It may be validation of there own view or maybe a simple desire to help someone else or someone with an axe to grind for whatever reason. Bottom line is that the agenda still exists. Mine is simple, I get tired of people taking the time to complain but not taking the time to say when they have had a good experience. What's yours?

we only question since we have seen alot of people come and go thru here over the years. Some people stop by to just stir the post and some come to contribute. This group is small but used to have alot of garage days, gtg's and lunches. Some of us have moved away but still stay in touch with the old group. Please don't take our questioning as critism we just don't like extra drama.. 

[ibell]

I took my Volkswagen to McDonald Volkswagen for maintenance to the tune of $385.  I  told them that the car seemed to be leaning to the left.  When I picked up the car, I was told that the leaning was fixed when they rotated the tires.

The next day, I got a flat tire, which I understand could happen to anyone.  It was the front driver's side tire.

I bought a new tire that day (the flat tire was less than 1 year old!).  The tire dealer told me that there was an indented line around the entire side of the tire, indicating that it had been driven on under-inflated for some time.

I took the car and flat tire back to McDonald's.  They told me that there was a mark on the wheel rim, indicating that a rock hit the tire and blew it out.  Unbelievable!  Like I wouldn't notice a blowout going 30 mph down Broadway, and that mark was not new!

I then took the tire to another Volkswagen dealership and asked their opinion (not mentioning McDonald's).  They, too, said that the tire got a flat from being under-inflated over time!

Obviously, they didn't bother to check the air pressure in the tires during the maintenance.  I doubt they even rotated the tires!

And who set the tire pressure at the previous mainetnance? McDonald Volkswagen!

Okay, I don't know much about cars.  That's why I pay for premium tires and have regular maintenance.  I really feel that I have been cheated.  I won't go back.

[Mcstiff]

I took my Volkswagen to McDonald Volkswagen for maintenance to the tune of $385.  I  told them that the car seemed to be leaning to the left.  When I picked up the car, I was told that the leaning was fixed when they rotated the tires.

The next day, I got a flat tire, which I understand could happen to anyone.  It was the front driver's side tire.

I bought a new tire that day (the flat tire was less than 1 year old!).  The tire dealer told me that there was an indented line around the entire side of the tire, indicating that it had been driven on under-inflated for some time.

I took the car and flat tire back to McDonald's.  They told me that there was a mark on the wheel rim, indicating that a rock hit the tire and blew it out.  Unbelievable!  Like I wouldn't notice a blowout going 30 mph down Broadway, and that mark was not new!

I then took the tire to another Volkswagen dealership and asked their opinion (not mentioning McDonald's).  They, too, said that the tire got a flat from being under-inflated over time!

Obviously, they didn't bother to check the air pressure in the tires during the maintenance.  I doubt they even rotated the tires!

And who set the tire pressure at the previous mainetnance? McDonald Volkswagen!

Okay, I don't know much about cars.  That's why I pay for premium tires and have regular maintenance.  I really feel that I have been cheated.  I won't go back.

In the end you are responsible; it sucks that you cannot trust people but thats the way it is. FWIW, I would have more trust in a known (forum sponsor) indy shop then the dealer. 

[92UrS4]

I am locking this thread. While I know there are a few threads, I think instead of piling on this one, since the OP never returned to update the outcome it's not really fair. Feel free to start a new thread if there is a legitimate gripe about anyone, or heck even if there is a compliment.