Rocky Mountain Club B5

Discussion Forums => Maintenance => Topic started by: TurboDub on April 19, 2005, 06:28:45 PM

Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on April 19, 2005, 06:28:45 PM
Hey All,

My 99 Passat 1.8t just turned 70k, so I'm thinking about having the timing belt changed soon. The guys at Tynans VW say it's a 100k belt, but its definitely not something I want to think about after it's already too late...

Any suggestions on how much longer I should wait? Also, do most people change the water pump while they have easy access to it? I did both at the same time on my Subie to save on some labor costs...

Thanks in advance.

Al
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: 92UrS4 on April 19, 2005, 07:05:39 PM
They are right, it is a 100K belt, but there is a risk that one of the components, such as the tensioner or rollers could fail before then creating a catastrophic failure.

It is a DIY job, but is labor intensive.  If you don't want to do it yourself check with Avalon Motorsports.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on April 19, 2005, 09:48:54 PM
I better leave it to an expert, I'll give Avalon a call...

Thanks!
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on April 19, 2005, 09:49:24 PM
Is the waterpump something I should have changed too?
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: 03Indigo on April 20, 2005, 01:22:15 AM
yes, change it all while you are in there, in the long run, that is the best way to go.  You can order kits that provide everything, or Avalon can source them for you if you are going that route.  www.ecstuning.com has very affordable kits IIRC.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: jayryan on April 20, 2005, 06:22:14 AM
It's strange, the Bently says that the TB doesn't come until like 105K or something way up there. All other years are different.
In any case, if it saves you money, order the kit from ECS and then have Avalon do the install. I'm sure Randy can work a deal for you. He's helped me out alot on OEM parts.
But yes, another "get it done immediately."
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: s4josh on April 20, 2005, 07:05:43 AM
While we are on the subject:

My 2001.5 Audi S4 doesn't say to change the time belt and tensioner until 105k miles.  I was going to have it done with this 60k mile maintenance, but I think I might wait until 70k (and save myself $1000).  I bought Audi's CPO warranty to extend the factory warranty to 6 years/100k miles, so I assume as long as I am having all the maintenance done as its recommended by Audi they would have to fix it if my timing belt i did break before 100k miles?

I am assuming since they re-engineered the timing belt to last longer I will prolly be ok to 70k?  What do you guys think?
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: Cole on April 20, 2005, 07:57:19 AM
I would imaging the 105,000 mark has a margin of error in it. So you should be fine to 70,000 if you treat the car nice. (not submerging it in oil and grime, etc)


I will be doing my timing belt soon. I have 103,800 on the car.  I figure while I am swapping the turbos I should do the belt/water pump etc. (maybe even the trans too :wink: )
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: s4josh on April 20, 2005, 09:09:35 AM
Had the timing belt already been replaced on your S4 Cole or is that the original one?
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: SweetVW on April 20, 2005, 09:10:21 AM
Goin' to Avalon the Friday to get my work done.  Randy was really cool in letting me use the parts that I had already bought from ECS Tuning.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: 92UrS4 on April 20, 2005, 09:47:04 AM
VW/Audi's specified time for the B5 and B6 should be 105K miles.  The failure is not typically the belt.  The belt is rarely what fails.  It is usually the tensioner or another component.  I thin I already said that.

Yes, if you have a CPO warranty justs tick with regular maintenance.  What I think has really been the issue is that people don't maintain their cars on time or the shops overlook things.  Plus stuff can go wront in between maintenance.

If the tensioner is going there should be a tell tale howling, often refered to the "mack truck sound."

There are pros and cons to doing it early.  If I didn't have a CPO and I was not the original owner, I would strongly consider doing it if you are over 60K miles.  That is just my opinion.

If you call the Audi dealers while 105K is the spec, they will often try and get you in with your 60K service to ahve the belt done because of the failure rates.

It has been said, if the car is well maintained, you could probably make it.  So keep that in mind too.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on April 20, 2005, 10:00:47 AM
As stated above, the belt is not the issue, it is the tensonor.  The water pump and the acessory belts should be done at the same time.

I would be happy to assist you with the parts and the work.  Give me a call or send me a PM here and we can get you all taken care of.

With respect to the S4's - I recommend 70K for the TB.  better not to roll the dice, it is expensive if you loose.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: 03Indigo on April 20, 2005, 10:06:23 AM
for those under CPO or AA with Audi, and the 2.7T motor.....the timing belt is recommended to be changed not until 105K miles.  However, it is also recommended by most people on the boards to change by 70K miles as Cole has suggested.  If you are under AA or CPO, and follow their recommendations, they they WILL cover the cost if it breaks before 100K.  I don't have this in writing, but Tom Lommel, service manager at Stammler, has stated this to me MANY times.  He recommends holding out on a CPO vehicle until 90-95K miles, then have it done.  For those that are not certified or extended warranty, he would recommend 70K to be safe.

also remember, if for some reason you get coolant on your timing belt, and are under warranty, they will replace it....again, heard that from Tom.

things to keep in mind...and I agree with Jay, if you are not the original owner of the car, or do not know the complete service or driving record of that engine, consider doing the belt before the 105K recommendation related to failure rates.  VAG motors are EXPENSIVE to replace.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: shummer on April 20, 2005, 10:07:46 AM
Despite having a 10yr/100k mile powertrain warranty, I got my TB + water pump done by Avalon at 60k miles. My main concerns were what if I/we get stranded if the belt breaks and do I really want a rebuilt engine even if it's free? Never mind the down time.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: Cole on April 20, 2005, 11:37:08 AM
Quote from: "s4josh"
Had the timing belt already been replaced on your S4 Cole or is that the original one?



I found the company that orginally had my car and the dealer that serviced it. They have records up to about 60K.

According to CARFAX the car only had one owner.

But I got the car from a dealer with about 80K on it.  There is a 20K GAP in my service history that I don't know about.

According to the original owner the car was never modified.

My car came with chip/exhaust/boost gauge/tint/paited wheels/springs/Lip spoiler/tip chip.

So I have no idea if it was changed or not!
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: s4josh on April 20, 2005, 02:26:58 PM
Thanks for the feed back everyone!  

I think I am going to hold out on doing it.  I know the car has been well maintaned and even gets an oil and filter ever 5k with 0-40 Wt Mobil 1 full-syn.  Also since the CPO cost $3200 and some odd dollars I am not to worried about something failing before 100k miles.  I haven't had anything go wrong since the factory warranty ran out and before that it was just very minor stuff besides the HAC fan :lol:

I will prolly do it around 80k then as long as my cam end seals dont go before then.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on April 23, 2005, 04:52:12 PM
Thanks for all the input!

I was at the dealer today, they quoted me about $750 for the changed TB not including a waterpump. The service mgr said that the WPs don't fail that often, but still I'm thinking while it's opened up, may as well change it.

Kraut I will get in touch with you as soon as I recover from paying my IRS bill...  :roll:


Thanks all!
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on April 25, 2005, 11:31:34 AM
I agree the water pump may not fail "all that often"  but the belt driving it will.  further more, if you are going to pay to have the car taken apart, might as well have it all done at once.

I look forward to your call after you pay the man. :wink:
Title: Water Pump Failure
Post by: BHase on April 25, 2005, 05:07:38 PM
The water pump failure is really a matter of experience. I had mine fail on me. Telltale signs of that are lots of coolant all over the place all the time, and that sweet, sweet smell of spring, er, coolant burning.  It's great.

The really sick thing about the water pump, and I have a 2.8 so I'm sure it is the same as the 2.7T, is that to get to it, you have to take the timing belt off anyway.  So if you're going to change one thing, change it all. Because if you do water pump separately, they're going to charge you similar labor charges. One-stop shopping is how I like to do my Audi services.

Anyhow, once I posted on AW about my water pump failure, I had about 20 replies from 2.8 owners who've had their water pumps fail at anywhere from 40,000-120,000 miles.  So it does happen. And it really sucks.

Oh also, if you're in there replacing the timing belt, you should really listen to the advice about getting the kit from ECS Tuning. That way they can replace the thermostat too.

Ben
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on May 05, 2005, 11:17:09 PM
Quote from: "03Indigo"
yes, change it all while you are in there, in the long run, that is the best way to go.  You can order kits that provide everything, or Avalon can source them for you if you are going that route.  www.ecstuning.com has very affordable kits IIRC.


Got my "Ultimate" TB kit today from ECS. Now I just have to install it all before something decides to let go on me...  

I was psyched when it arrived, so just for kicks I read the "instructions" that came with the water pump....yeah i'm in wayyyy over my head.  8O

Thanks everyone!
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: SweetVW on May 06, 2005, 08:03:10 AM
Just wanted to chime in and say that Randy and Avalon did a great job with my timing belt.  The car is running great! I would not hesitate on working with Avalon again.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: shummer on May 06, 2005, 08:28:14 AM
I'll second Dave's comments. Avalon did a great job on my timing belt. Good price too.
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: ColoradoB5 on May 06, 2005, 09:24:38 AM
I would highly recommend replacing the water pump at the time the TB i replaced.  If I recal correctly it is under $25 and just takes 5 minutes to put in.  Since you have to have everything pulled off that same as for the TB job, you might as well have it done.

The TB job itself is about an 8 hour job if you haven't done it before, so if Avalon is in your budget, go for it.  They are great and Randy is a VAG pimp!
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on May 06, 2005, 10:15:36 AM
Thank you for the kind words gentelman!

Turrbo Dub - PM reply sent. :D
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: TurboDub on May 29, 2005, 08:07:37 PM
*Just following up to this post...

I asked Randy at Avalon change my TB, water pump, etc.

I have to say that I am SUPER happy with the result. I ran the car up to Breck and back today and it ran perfect. Nice and smooth as it should.

Randy was more than helpful and did a REALLY thorough job. He noticed how the dealer had previously F&^&* up my cruise control AND how the same dealer used the SMALL oil filter the last time it was in for service. :evil:  Needless to say I will not be going back to Tynan's VW for service OR to buy another car EVER!!!

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone for the words of advice, and to publically thank Randy and the guys at Avalon for all the help.

Al
Title: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on May 31, 2005, 12:40:08 PM
Thanks for the business Al!

I am glad the car is running well and you have cruse control back for the long trips into the mountains.

Dealers need to pay more attention to their own service bulletins and put the right filter on your car.  Not a big deal untill it causes a problem and then the hang you out to dry.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: Usermanual on June 01, 2006, 05:28:15 PM
I have exactly 74,000 on my 99.5 1.8t A4. I am preparing to have my Timing Belt changed and have put in a call to Randy as well as some other "reputable" non-dealer mechanics. How much will I save by purchasing my parts at a site like ECS tuning and providing them to my mechanic? Will all mechanics let me provide my own parts (understanding of course that I accept no warranty on their part for the parts)?

I have also been told that I should have my head gaskets replaced along with the TB, Water Pump, Belts, Fluids, Etc. Are head gaskets something I should consider at this point? So far I have determined that it's about $300.00 extra on top of the TB fee to have this done. Should I pop for it or wait?

Thanks for the advice,

Jon
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: 03Indigo on June 01, 2006, 05:52:30 PM
get it done.....you can also DIY....as long as you are comfortable with that.  Plan on a day to have it done.  Not sure on the parts options, Randy usually can get you a decent price on the kit...might as well do the water pump while in there.  Many have used the ECS kit, and I have not heard any bad comments about the kit, but the occasional bad comment about customer service from ECS.  Personally, I have never had a bad experience with ECS, I would feel comfortable buying from them again.



ps....holy thread resorection batman :lol:  Al does not even have this car anymore.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on June 01, 2006, 07:35:21 PM
I am with you Jon(03Indigo), this is a oldie, but a goodie.

Jon (usermanual) I would be happy to work with you on the parts and also the Valve Cover Gaskets (I hope that is what is is - Head gaskets are a whole nother ball game).

 - Randy
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: Usermanual on June 01, 2006, 08:54:25 PM
You are right, it is valve cover gaskets.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: ianacole on June 01, 2006, 11:05:54 PM
Quote from: "03Indigo";p="47560"
ps....holy thread resorection batman :lol:  Al does not even have this car anymore.


Just shows someone knows how to use a search, unlike some MKIV forums I can think of  :roll:  :lol:
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: 03Indigo on June 02, 2006, 05:16:35 AM
I totally agree.  Search is a good thing.  I am just so used to other forums NOT searching, it always amazes me when an oldie but goodie makes it to the top.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: shummer on June 02, 2006, 07:40:39 AM
Usermanual,

I let Randy source the parts instead of buying from ECS and the quote was still better than any dealer/non-dealer around.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: Usermanual on June 02, 2006, 10:54:50 AM
And less work for me... :D

Randy, I need a quote from you man. I left you a VM at your office and sent you an e-mail.

Jon
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: methodicalmayhem on June 02, 2006, 08:47:45 PM
there's a search function here???  so used to the vortex where people don't know about the search enigine that I'm surprised when another site has such a wonderful option
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: ianacole on June 02, 2006, 09:29:02 PM
Quote from: "methodicalmayhem";p="47598"
there's a search function here???  so used to the vortex where people don't know about the search enigine that I'm surprised when another site has such a wonderful option


 :roflmao:

Especially in the freakin' MKIV forums.
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: jayryan on June 05, 2006, 07:12:49 AM
I just hate it when the search function's broke...you KNOW the topic's been discussed a million times, but no matter how different or varied the parameters are, it won't come up  :evil: So I never go there anymore :)
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: kraut-sled on June 05, 2006, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: "Usermanual";p="47585"
And less work for me... :D

Randy, I need a quote from you man. I left you a VM at your office and sent you an e-mail.

Jon


Sent you the estimate.  Thanks for understanding the long delay getting back to you.

 - Randy
Title: Re: timing belt time?
Post by: Usermanual on June 05, 2006, 07:43:55 PM
Appriciate it, thanks.

Jon