Rocky Mountain Club B5

Discussion Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 08:50:38 AM

Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 08:50:38 AM
Ok.. another area the debate rages over whicn one is best - best performance, best look, best sound, best built, etc., etc.

Here is the thing.  I have a friend that works at Midas - He is a bit of an older fella like me, and has been doing exhaust work for 20+ years.  

As opposed to going the APR route, Milltek, etc., he can custom build a 2.5 inch cat back system for me.  He can do downpipe and free flow cat too - that may come later.  Then he will put on whatever muffler I want.  

Midas is carrying Flowmaster now and I kind of like the 50 Series of that muffler.  I am not sure how it would sound on a turbo charged engine but I have to imagine it would be more aggressive than stock.  Either that or I could go with the 40 Series.

I could get all this for around $300 tops.

Am I off my rocker in thinking this could be a decent set up.  I can always get another muffler.   But, to have a custom bent system, done in house with a guy that can service it, not have the huge price tag, competent service - cause of his experience........

What do you think?  Am I off my rocker??
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 08:55:35 AM
I don't think you're off your rocker. A custom exhaust setup could be incredible. Not sure about the flow masters, I know they'd be sweet on my Scout, but not sure on the turbo.

Still for $300, might be worth trying it! Helluva lot cheaper than the other "kits."
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 07, 2005, 09:07:44 AM
You're not off your rocker at all. High performance exhausts are designed to move air. So you want bigger pipes and as straight as possible. The latter is why I would recommened not going with flowmaster unless they have a straight through variety. Their chambered system is not optimal.
Go with a straight through design. Dan (tweakdub) custom built a 2.5" system with a Magnaflow and it's sweet. It's probably too loud for the wife and kid though. So I say, do it and be happy :D
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 09:16:57 AM
Just got off the phone with him.  Looks as though it will be $200 if I wanna do it.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 09:24:15 AM
Well there ya go, no brainer. :)
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 07, 2005, 09:29:50 AM
^ What he said ^  Does he do mandrel bending? Must have Mandrel bends :D
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 09:55:24 AM
I've pondered this question many times myself, mainly: "Why do we all pay $600-$1000 for exhaust systems when other people play $200-$400?"
If you do it, make sure you provide a lot of detailed, honest feedback!

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 10:32:18 AM
grrr... I just got done typing my original response and lost it...  :evil:

OK.. here we go again.

JR - Yes.... it is all mandrel bent.  I would not have it any other way.  Also, in regards to the chambered Flowmaster, I am not convinced this would be costly in the restrictive sense.  I do know that it helps achieve a good sound - and hopefully not droney.

Ben - Honest feedback is the name of the game.  Considering that I can get ONE muffler at some places for the cost of this setup, I think I am off to a good start.  If things go right I will have it on for DATR and many of you can check it out for yourself.  

The worst case scenario is this:

If I do not like the muffler he will fit and refit whatever I want until I am happy.  I cannot say though that dropping 4 bills on two mufflers is anything I wanna do soon.  

Also, is there a resonator(s) between the cat and the mufflers?  If so, should it be removed?  I want to get as much low growl as I can with this 1.8T without a drone.  This may take some work but since I have a guy that will work with it till it is right, I guess I can't go wrong.

I am glad to see that I am not off my rocker.  I was thinking I would have to spend the amount Ben suggested to just be accepted by you guys  8O

I will work with Kevin to get the exhaust as straight as we can.  Also, I am going to stay with the stealth tips.  I like that  8)
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Spicoli on June 07, 2005, 10:39:41 AM
Personally I love the APR, I think it is the best sounding... DP wise it is the same as Milltek and GHL for performance... but from what i have seen (read) the GHL's muffler is less restrictive and you can get an extra 5hp over APR.  I had Milltek and it looked good (tip) but the sound was so-so and I constantly throw codes for the 3rd o2 sensor.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: "Spicoli"
Personally I love the APR, I think it is the best sounding...


I agree.  I have always liked APR but the question still remains... would I lose anything over a custom job?  Especially when the tone can be tuned per different mufflers... and I can still stay WAY below the cost of an APR setup.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 11:24:06 AM
In theory you shouldn;t loose anything, the idea is that you need it built to teh correct specs for your setup to maximize performance. I am nowhere near an expert, but logically it would seem you could achieve the same results via a custom setup as you would from the likes of APR.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Spicoli on June 07, 2005, 11:25:51 AM
I don't know!  sorry.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 07, 2005, 11:31:49 AM
With only a KO3, there's only so much you can do. Personally, I think going the extra $500 or so for a system isn't worth it unless I'm looking at 0.03sec time differences on a drag strip. For what I, and I'm sure most of us here do, just opening up the airways is enough.
You won't lose anything at all from stock. You can only gain right now.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 11:33:41 AM
As far as the resonator is concerned, I don't have much experience with the 1.8T w/o a resonator. I will say that my 2.8 30v does have a resonator (Stebro exhaust), but it is still really loud, but not very much buzzing.  I had a friend who owns a 2001 Jetta VR6 and he didn't want a resonator...I wouldn't do it personally. Not sure you would like it. I'd stick with the resonator personally.

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 11:34:20 AM
Quote from: "jayryan"
With only a KO3, there's only so much you can do. Personally, I think going the extra $500 or so for a system isn't worth it unless I'm looking at 0.03sec time differences on a drag strip. For what I, and I'm sure most of us here do, just opening up the airways is enough.
You won't lose anything at all from stock. You can only gain right now.


I think I am going to just got for it in the next couple of days.  I am goinn gto go and see him today with the car.  

Anything I should look for regarding throwing codes?  A new cat back system shoud not do that should it?
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 07, 2005, 11:39:00 AM
You shouldn't throw any codes. If you do, you can always Vag-Com it.
As far as resonators go, the stock resonator is the FIRST thing you should lose. If you need a resonator, do an aftermarket Brullen, Magnaflow or glasspack or something.
Aside from the turbo :wink: it's the most restrictive obstruction in the exhuast. AND it weighs 50lbs.
I should also note that I don't believe anyone makes an exhaust for the B5.5 1.8T 4mo yet.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: s4josh on June 07, 2005, 11:46:32 AM
I had a 2.5" custom cat-back with a original Flowmaster (which is the 40 series now) on a Saab 900 Turbo 2.0L 16v that I owned.  It actually sounded nice with a deep tone and you deffently could hear the turbo whistle alot better afterwards (which I like).  The only downside to flowmasters mufflers are when they drone they have a metal tone to them due to the all metal construction.  Just make sure if you are just installing a single muffler without a resonator, that you put the muffler in the middle of the pipe.  If you are going to use a resonator and muffler, put the resonator in the middle and the muffler at the end of the pipe.

I also had a 2.5 custom cat-back flowmaster 50 series on my Jeep Cherokee 4.0L L6.  Its sounds very nice at low to mid rpm range, but at the higher rpm range it becomes less distinctive for each fire and has a thrushey sound to it, but its designed to be mellower than a 30 and 40 series.

Just depends on how load you want it to be.  If you like the low deep tone and a some growl a flowmaster would be the way to go
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 11:56:19 AM
JR - I have not seen anything on the net for the 4MO either.  It might be out there and maybe I just need to place some calls.  Or...

Ben/JR - Regarding the resonator... hmmm.. not sure what to do there.  I don't want the restriction but I don't want the drone either.  

My setup is a dual exhaust with the 4MO so I am not sure if I have two resonators or not - the wife needs to get home with the car asap.

Josh - I am thinking about going wth the 50 Series.  I just don't want a massive drone.  I think the turbo is going to keep it  abit quieter too.  Not to mention two mufflers.  Your post sounds promising fopr me though though  :D

And for the love of... I do not want a brrrraaaaaap braaaaap sound.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: gragravar on June 07, 2005, 12:39:52 PM
you'll have to let me know how this works out.  A guy on audiworld put straightpipes from the cats back on his allroad.  it was also a custom set of pipes looks and sounds terrific.

see link for the thread about his install which in turn links to the sound files and completed project pics.

http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/msgs/112844.phtml (http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/msgs/112844.phtml)
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 12:41:43 PM
Hey, also ask your buddy how much he'd charge to do my 77 Scout II, I'l love to put in some flowmasters! Probably just need the mufflers, the pipes should be okay.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: "gietl"
Hey, also ask your buddy how much he'd charge to do my 77 Scout II, I'l love to put in some flowmasters! Probably just need the mufflers, the pipes should be okay.


I will ask him.  What series would you want?  


I will keep all posted.  I am getting kind of stoked about this.  Maybe I will get it done this week!  After all, if I am getting software at DATR, this would make sense.

Oh, btw... I think I am going to go for aluminum vs. stainless.  We are dry enough here where I don't have to worry too much.  I know, I know it will look nicer in SS but it is under the car.  Besides, aluminum is lighter.  I need all the help I can get with the 4MO.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 01:00:22 PM
I think all I would want is the 40, would need two for the dual exhaust I have.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 01:35:56 PM
JR~
It is possible to have worse low-end torque with the larger aftermarket system.  I don't understand the physics of it, but it's well-documented.  Counterintuitive, I know, but do some research and you'll find it.

JerBer~
That said, it sounds like a screamin' deal.  The fact that you can change it if you don't like it is a BIG plus, too.  Kind of like a free insurance policy. :)
I say go for it.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: ianacole on June 07, 2005, 01:41:13 PM
Quote from: "DenverPat"
JR~
It is possible to have worse low-end torque with the larger aftermarket system.  I don't understand the physics of it, but it's well-documented.  Counterintuitive, I know, but do some research and you'll find it.


I thought this was only applicable to NA motors where backpressure has specific optimal settings based on the motor.  In turbo engines, post turbo the highest efficiency exhaust is no exhaust, or so I've heard.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: gragravar on June 07, 2005, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: "ianacole"
Quote from: "DenverPat"
JR~
It is possible to have worse low-end torque with the larger aftermarket system.  I don't understand the physics of it, but it's well-documented.  Counterintuitive, I know, but do some research and you'll find it.


I thought this was only applicable to NA motors where backpressure has specific optimal settings based on the motor.  In turbo engines, post turbo the highest efficiency exhaust is no exhaust, or so I've heard.


turbos still need some back pressure to spool properly.  that said, the cats (presuming you are running cats) should provide enough for that.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: "ianacole"
Quote from: "DenverPat"
JR~
It is possible to have worse low-end torque with the larger aftermarket system.  I don't understand the physics of it, but it's well-documented.  Counterintuitive, I know, but do some research and you'll find it.


I thought this was only applicable to NA motors where backpressure has specific optimal settings based on the motor.  In turbo engines, post turbo the highest efficiency exhaust is no exhaust, or so I've heard.


Logically that makes sense.  However, I've heard of this being true for B5s as well.  Don't ask me why because I don't get it.  It's not a significant loss from what I hear, but interesting nonetheless.  I've never experienced it first hand.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 01:49:26 PM
Pat - I have done quite a bit of reading and it does appear that you will lose low end torque with anything larger than 2.5 - something to do with not enough back pressure causing a large about of t lag.  I have read that 2.5 is good to about the 300HP range.  If you want more than that then it is time for a bigger turbo and lungs.  Since I am tip, I will not go near those figures.

I also think this is a good deal.  Since he is a buddy he is willing to do what needs to be done for me to get it right/make me happy.  I am starting to wonder now if I am going to have him just go ahead and fab up a DP too.  TT Tuning is about the only one I have found that makes one for the tip - and I know I would get a better deal with a custom one.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 01:52:27 PM
Jeremy~
It sounds like you're going about this a very smart way.  If you've got a hook up, and he'll be working in there anyway, I say go for the DP.  That'll certainly make the car louder, but if you can put up with it you will notice better performance.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 03Indigo on June 07, 2005, 01:57:56 PM
Jeremy, we soooo need to talk tomorrow, I want a custom exhaust on my car so you will have to hook me up with your buddy.  I want the silencer taken out, and maybe some new cans.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 02:10:01 PM
Quote from: "03Indigo"
Jeremy, we soooo need to talk tomorrow, I want a custom exhaust on my car so you will have to hook me up with your buddy.  I want the silencer taken out, and maybe some new cans.


Looking forward to it.  I am sure he can hook you up... I just need to talk to him and get the clearance to drop his name and location here.  I think all will be good though.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 02:18:33 PM
Jon, you're getting implants? :P
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 07, 2005, 02:20:24 PM
I noted the fact that since he's only got a K03, his planned setup will work fine. Yes, you can go backwards the more car is tuned by not having the proper setup for the tune. But in our case- lightly tuned K03's- anything stock size and up to a point will be better than the OEM system we currently have.

I'm not trying to spread disinformation. I'm just not as clear as I should be. :roll: All this TV warps my brainwaves.

If you have too big of pipes for your turbo, you will lose low-end TQ. The turbo needs to push that much more through to fill the larger diameter (backpressue). If you go too small, than the air doesn't flow fast enough. That's the way I look at it. I guess it's like upgrading to a bigger turbo and keeping the intake the same...the turbo's too big and can't be utilized and you don't gain much.

So, if you don't have a huge turbo, why the huge exhaust? I talk too much....
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: ianacole on June 07, 2005, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: "gragravar"
turbos still need some back pressure to spool properly.  that said, the cats (presuming you are running cats) should provide enough for that.


From what I understand the only back pressure needed is from the block to the turbo to maintain constant, consistant flow (hence some of the designs floating around on equal-length exhaust manifold runners).
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: gragravar on June 07, 2005, 02:44:43 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Looking forward to it.  I am sure he can hook you up... I just need to talk to him and get the clearance to drop his name and location here.  I think all will be good though.


and if he likes his name being dropped here.  our fees to have him join us as an advertiser are pretty small. :mrgreen:
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 02:47:54 PM
Quote from: "gragravar"
Quote from: "JerBear"
Looking forward to it.  I am sure he can hook you up... I just need to talk to him and get the clearance to drop his name and location here.  I think all will be good though.


and if he likes his name being dropped here.  our fees to have him join us as an advertiser are pretty small. :mrgreen:


HAHA... got ya.  I guess peeps will have to PM me then.  Or those that know me can just call.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 05:33:59 PM
The equation is now a little different than what I know.

The exhaust on this '04 1.8T 4MO is different than expected.  I will first attempt to explain what I know, and then humbly ask for input.

1. It appears the cat (3 inch) is attached directly to the turbo
2. From there the downpipe proceeds with a 2.25 diameter
3. It them transforms itself to a flattened 2.25 pipe
4. Right before it hits the resonator - not as big the typical suitcase resonator - it Y's.  The Y pipes are now 1.5 inches.
5. The Y pipes then hit the resonator and exit with dual 1.5 inch pipes
6. They extend back to what is now known to me as suitcase mufflers
7. Reportedly these mufflers are very restrictive

So, here is the question.  Normally one would go 2.5 inch turbo back ... but this is different with the dual exit.  Hence if you go 2.5 inch to and the Y to dual 2.5 inches won't you get too much airflow and not enough back pressure?

Here is one proposed idea:

1. Leave turbo
2. Leave 3 inch cat
3. Replace 2.25 DP with 2.5 incher
4. Replace 2.25 flattened pipe with 2.5 inch pipe
5. Do not Y it into the muffler but rather one in and two out
6. Replace resonator with muffler - almost under the rear seat
7. Replace 1.5 inch Y pipes with 2 inch Ys.
8. Straight back exit to the rear of the car with 2 inch pipes - with NO mufflers to replace the stock suitcase mufflers

Does anyone see an issue with this???  At this point I am not inclined to think I will lose low end TQ but then again I could be wrong.  If the system is too loud or droney I can always add mufflers or GP where the original suitcase mufflers were - at the rear of the car.
Title: Re: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Eric18T on June 07, 2005, 05:51:00 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Ok.. another area the debate rages over whicn one is best - best performance, best look, best sound, best built, etc., etc.

Here is the thing.  I have a friend that works at Midas - He is a bit of an older fella like me, and has been doing exhaust work for 20+ years.  

As opposed to going the APR route, Milltek, etc., he can custom build a 2.5 inch cat back system for me.  He can do downpipe and free flow cat too - that may come later.  Then he will put on whatever muffler I want.  

Midas is carrying Flowmaster now and I kind of like the 50 Series of that muffler.  I am not sure how it would sound on a turbo charged engine but I have to imagine it would be more aggressive than stock.  Either that or I could go with the 40 Series.

I could get all this for around $300 tops.

Am I off my rocker in thinking this could be a decent set up.  I can always get another muffler.   But, to have a custom bent system, done in house with a guy that can service it, not have the huge price tag, competent service - cause of his experience........

What do you think?  Am I off my rocker??


You can always find something cheaper.. Oh well. I ended up spending $1100 + install for my exhaust for the A4.. And for some weird reason it doesn't bother me... I must have problems with my head.  :(
Title: Re: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: "Eric18T"
You can always find something cheaper.. Oh well. I ended up spending $1100 + install for my exhaust for the A4.. And for some weird reason it doesn't bother me... I must have problems with my head.  :(


Eric: Same. I paid about $850 with installation, but it was a good looking, good sounding exhaust which has given me tons of pleasure over the past three years. If you take it pro rata, that's only $283.34 a year.  I'm not sure that I ever want to sell the car (it isn't worth anything anyhow), so it is worth it in the end.

Jeremy: Interesting setup on that Passat 4Motion, didn't know that. As long as you feel good about it, I think the setup you're suggesting sounds fine. Again, I don't know much about it. But it would be cool to see if it works out! But then, it isn't going on my car either.  :?

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Eric18T on June 07, 2005, 06:21:42 PM
oh and please put some mufflers on there. Your wife and child will thank you for it...
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 06:26:56 PM
Quote from: "Eric18T"
oh and please put some mufflers on there. Your wife and child will thank you for it...


 :?:

There is already going to be one... at the almost center of the car - one just like most are running now without the dual.

If it drones.. meaning I don't like it... I can always make it more quiet with GPs or two more mufflers.

... and yes you can always find something cheaper - more expensive however does not always mean better.  And at this point NO ONE has anything out there for a direct replacement as they do for the non 4MO cars.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Eric18T on June 07, 2005, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Quote from: "Eric18T"
oh and please put some mufflers on there. Your wife and child will thank you for it...


 :?:

There is already going to be one... at the almost center of the car - one just like most are running now without the dual.

If it drones.. meaning I don't like it... I can always make it more quiet with GPs or two more mufflers.

... and yes you can always find something cheaper - more expensive however does not always mean better.  And at this point NO ONE has anything out there for a direct replacement as they do for the non 4MO cars.


The only reason i said to make sure you put mufflers on there is when i had the jetta i tried a similar thing using a series of mufflers (magnaflow) in the middle with straight pipe after that with a simple rear valace exit, well it was very loud. It just echoed/bellowed in the car. It was crazy. I drove it for a couple hundred miles hoping it would quiet down.. But it never happened.  i promptly went and ordered a Autotech system after that was amazingly quiet..

I never was trying to aquait(sp)  $$ to quality.  But after my custom exhaust attempt, i will never try it again. I will just order something and call it a day. Good luck with the custom setup.. And Hopefully you have better luck than me.  :)
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: "Eric18T"

The only reason i said to make sure you put mufflers on there is when i had the jetta i tried a similar thing using a series of mufflers (magnaflow) in the middle with straight pipe after that with a simple rear valace exit, well it was very loud. It just echoed/bellowed in the car. It was crazy. I drove it for a couple hundred miles hoping it would quiet down.. But it never happened.  i promptly went and ordered a Autotech system after that was amazingly quiet..


Now that is some good information.  The kind of stuff I am looking for.. hehehe...  What engine did you have in the Jetta?
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 06:59:35 PM
I'm not sure what to tell you.  If I were in your shoes, I'd try to keep it as simple as possible.  I see no reason to run twin pipes anywhere in your system since it's a four-banger with a 4 into 1 exhaust manifold.  Also, your exhaust differs from mine.  Mine goes block to ported/polished manifold, turbo, 3 inch DP, cat, pipe to muffler at the back.  If I were in your shoes I'd talk to as many people as possible that have done what you're considering.  What do you plan on doing with the O2 sensor(s)?  There are a lot of variables here that none of us have first hand experience with.  Make some phone calls and send some emails to others with your same kind of car.  Learn from their experiences.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: "DenverPat"
I'm not sure what to tell you.  If I were in your shoes, I'd try to keep it as simple as possible.  I see no reason to run twin pipes anywhere in your system since it's a four-banger with a 4 into 1 exhaust manifold.  Also, your exhaust differs from mine.  Mine goes block to ported/polished manifold, turbo, 3 inch DP, cat, pipe to muffler at the back.  If I were in your shoes I'd talk to as many people as possible that have done what you're considering.  What do you plan on doing with the O2 sensor(s)?  There are a lot of variables here that none of us have first hand experience with.  Make some phone calls and send some emails to others with your same kind of car.  Learn from their experiences.


O2 sensors... good question.  I know this came up momentarily at the shop.  Any idea how many are there?  Just one?  Or are there multiple?
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 07:11:14 PM
You're asking the wrong guy.  Keep in mind they don't have to remain in the same places as originals.  I used to have one right after the turbo, then one right before the cat.  The new program I'm using specs the first one in the same location as the original, but the second one is now two inches after the cat.   That's why I say talk to someone that's been through this before, unless you don't mind being a guinea pig.
Hell, with your hook up being the guinea pig isn't a terrible thing, I guess.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 07:26:06 PM
Quote from: "DenverPat"
You're asking the wrong guy.  Keep in mind they don't have to remain in the same places as originals.  I used to have one right after the turbo, then one right before the cat.  The new program I'm using specs the first one in the same location as the original, but the second one is now two inches after the cat.   That's why I say talk to someone that's been through this before, unless you don't mind being a guinea pig.
Hell, with your hook up being the guinea pig isn't a terrible thing, I guess.


Well, I am supposing they could be put back in the same relative spot - but who knows.  Not sure how much I wanna be a total guinea pig.   :?

I guess another option would be to do away with the dual and just run a single pipe as stated by some.... mmmm

And I was thinking I could get this tomorrow... riiiight....
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 07:34:04 PM
I don't know crap about engineering exhausts.  I'm guessing they did that for a reason.  I would want to know why, then figure out if I could get by with a simpler, single pipe exhaust knowing why they did what they did.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 07:40:41 PM
Quote from: "DenverPat"
I don't know crap about engineering exhausts.  I'm guessing they did that for a reason.  I would want to know why, then figure out if I could get by with a simpler, single pipe exhaust knowing why they did what they did.


I think I am going to call around tomorrow.  APR, Milltek, Neuspeed, SuperSprint, Strat....


ahhhh heck.  Maybe I will just buy a DV and wait for a friggen bolt on replacement to come in.

Don't ya just love going in friggin circles???? :oops:  :evil:  :cry:  :roll:
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Eric18T on June 07, 2005, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Quote from: "Eric18T"

The only reason i said to make sure you put mufflers on there is when i had the jetta i tried a similar thing using a series of mufflers (magnaflow) in the middle with straight pipe after that with a simple rear valace exit, well it was very loud. It just echoed/bellowed in the car. It was crazy. I drove it for a couple hundred miles hoping it would quiet down.. But it never happened.  i promptly went and ordered a Autotech system after that was amazingly quiet..


Now that is some good information.  The kind of stuff I am looking for.. hehehe...  What engine did you have in the Jetta?


1.8T. We had problems with the 02 sensors and placements/location of those. I received a CE light since they weren't quite right. I also had the same problem with the GHL DP i had (bad 02 sesor locations). i learned alot of lessons with the jetta and i am trying to not go down that same road with the A4 now. I spent more $$ trying to save money (custom exhaust/dp..) than i would have spent to just do it right the first time and buy something that was properly engineered for the application.

I just don't want to see someone repeat what i have already tried and had to fix.. It just isn;t worth it.

Again like Pat i know nothing about exhaust engineering, This is not my feild of expertiese.  All i know is what i read in Corky Bells "Maximum Boost" book.

If you need a DV i have a couple spare bosch ones kicking around that i will trade ya for a cup of coffee.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 08:22:52 PM
Quote from: "Eric18T"

1.8T. We had problems with the 02 sensors and placements/location of those. I received a CE light since they weren't quite right. I also had the same problem with the GHL DP i had (bad 02 sesor locations). i learned alot of lessons with the jetta and i am trying to not go down that same road with the A4 now. I spent more $$ trying to save money (custom exhaust/dp..) than i would have spent to just do it right the first time and buy something that was properly engineered for the application.

I just don't want to see someone repeat what i have already tried and had to fix.. It just isn;t worth it.

Again like Pat i know nothing about exhaust engineering, This is not my feild of expertiese.  All i know is what i read in Corky Bells "Maximum Boost" book.

If you need a DV i have a couple spare bosch ones kicking around that i will trade ya for a cup of coffee.


I hear ya there.  I am thinking I may just contact Strat and Milltek tomorrow.  I really like that exhaust.. or er.. maybe APR.  

As far as the DV goes, I am not sure here either - LOL.  I had a Hyperboost on my GTI and I loved it.  Looking there now they have the HX and HXc.  If those are anything like the last one I had... I may just settle for that.  But I know the debate rages on that too - stock vs. bailey vs. forge vs. hyperboost......

As far as the coffee goes, just name it.  I am always down for coffee... in fact I may have some right now....
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: gragravar on June 07, 2005, 08:26:08 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Quote from: "gragravar"
Quote from: "JerBear"
Looking forward to it.  I am sure he can hook you up... I just need to talk to him and get the clearance to drop his name and location here.  I think all will be good though.


and if he likes his name being dropped here.  our fees to have him join us as an advertiser are pretty small. :mrgreen:


HAHA... got ya.  I guess peeps will have to PM me then.  Or those that know me can just call.


that's not quite what I meant Please do post the shop name (with their OK) as a bunch of us want to know.  I was just thinking that if a little name drop leads to a little business, then sponsorship would make things more visible and could mean more business...  and a happy thing for everyone. :D
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: DenverPat on June 07, 2005, 08:28:38 PM
As far as DVs go, I don't know much.  I'm under the impression all the ones you mentioned are excellent quality.  Although there might not be much of a difference between products (?), I was very impressed with the level of service I got from Forge.  Search AW for my post on my experience with them and how they made up for ECS's mistakes...and then some.  They totally went above and beyond and earned my loyalty.  That's not easy to do.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 10:05:38 PM
Ugh. All this talk of exhausts is making me want to buy the Supersprint headers for the 2.8 ($1100 w/o install), which, if you didn't know already, have to be imported (you can see them at http://www.supersprint.it).  

Just run open headers. You'll know it is non-restrictive and you'll know how loud it will be. Run that setup for about 6 months, and never will you find an exhaust system too loud!

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 10:32:01 PM
OMG I FOUND IT:

http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=SS%2E887403%2F09%2F39
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 10:46:05 PM
Oh wow, that is one pricey exhaust though for $1400 before install!  But I've never heard anything bad about Supersprint (maybe someone else has?). I know they are a common system on supercharged 2.8's, according to another forum I am on, and most people have been quite satisfied, though I think the 2.8 Supersprint costs about half of what that system costs.

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 10:53:48 PM
Quote from: "BHase"
Oh wow, that is one pricey exhaust though for $1400 before install!  
Ben


I about fell off the couch when 1. I found it and 2. I saw the price. 8O

I will be calling around tomorrow and finding out if anyone else has this in the works.  This price is outrageous and should be if it is the only one offered at present time.  They have the market.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 92UrS4 on June 07, 2005, 11:03:14 PM
We can get a potential discount from parts4vws.com, but I doubt it would be anything significant for that item if anything.  We tend to get like $5 off.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 11:04:34 PM
I'm assuming you have a manual transmission. Neuspeed makes a cat-back exhaust for the B5.5 Passat 1.8T for $749.95.

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=57|B6&type=5&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=609

And here's the one for the Tip:

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=57|B6&type=5&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=610

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 07, 2005, 11:07:07 PM
Quote from: "BHase"
I'm assuming you have a manual transmission. Neuspeed makes a cat-back exhaust for the B5.5 Passat 1.8T for $749.95.

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=57|B6&type=5&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=609


Ben


Now Ben if you had read this entire thread.. hahaha... you would have seen I have Tip.  :lol:

I really don't blame ya though, this thing has really grown in such a short amount of time...

And the one that is listed for Tip is not for 4MO  :(
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 07, 2005, 11:08:32 PM
Quote from: "JerBear"
Quote from: "BHase"
I'm assuming you have a manual transmission. Neuspeed makes a cat-back exhaust for the B5.5 Passat 1.8T for $749.95.

http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=57|B6&type=5&ltype=ns_euro&p_id=609


Ben


Now Ben if you had read this entire thread.. hahaha... you would have seen I have Tip.  :lol:

I really don't blame ya though, this thing has really grown in such a short amount of time...



I was looking for it, didn't see it...but then editted my previous post just in case. It has the link for the Tip Neuspeed Exhaust on it too now.

Ben
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: jayryan on June 08, 2005, 04:41:43 AM
Wow...good info Eric.  I know Dan when straight back from the cat to his Magnaflow and it was loud, but he didn't have any problems.

There is no discount for the Supersprint. Sorry Jeremy. I logged in and checked. I still don't think you'll run into too many issues except loud/quiet if you put the O2 sensors in the same spot.

But again, that's me and you do have a hook up :wink:
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: 03Indigo on June 08, 2005, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: "DenverPat"
Jon, you're getting implants? :P


already got them, wanna come over and play wit 'em? :P
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 08, 2005, 10:56:59 AM
OK.  For those that are even remotely interested here is what I have found so far:

-Neuspeed states they have nothing and are not going to produce anything
-APR has nothing at the moment but eventually will - maybe in a couple months??
-TT Tuning has it in their sites and were just getting a lot of the new cars done.  They want to get this together but need a car.  HAHAHA.. I offered to drive up but for me it would take too much time and my back cannot handle the drive.
-ABD is contacting SuperSprint (since they are an importer) for technical information.  They should get back to me tomorrow and see what they can do for me - both price and time on delivery.

I am not sure how many more disappointing calls I can make today. :cry:
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: gragravar on June 08, 2005, 11:01:23 AM
don't forget to take a look at remus sportexhaust too.

http://www.remus-usa.com/home.html
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 08, 2005, 11:03:30 AM
Quote from: "gragravar"
don't forget to take a look at remus sportexhaust too.

http://www.remus-usa.com/home.html


Yep, they are next on my list of people to still contact.

Thanks!
Title: supersprint.
Post by: Eric18T on June 08, 2005, 05:41:57 PM
that supersprint looks nice.. Every Supersprint i have heard on 1.8T, VR6's and BMW's has sounded amazing. Not quiet, but not loud.. Just a great sporty sound.  Do you have any more detailed specs on it?

Did you place the order yet? ;)

you might try Turner Motorsports to see if they can get it for you for a better deal. If i recal correctly they are a master distributer.

Turner Motorsports Link (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/show_category.asp?txtsearchParamCat=intakeexhaust#Supersprint)
Title: Re: supersprint.
Post by: evil_O on June 08, 2005, 05:44:58 PM
Quote from: "Eric18T"
that supersprint looks nice.. Every Supersprint i have heard on 1.8T, VR6's and BMW's has sounded amazing. Not quiet, but not loud.. Just a great sporty sound.  Do you have any more detailed specs on it?

Did you place the order yet? ;)


I have no detailed specs on it yet.  It might not even be for the 1.8T!!!

I have a call into ABD - they are an importer - and they are contacting SS.  I am hoping to hear back from them tomorrow sometime.  It would be at least 12 weeks out though if they do have it... so.. yea... I might place the order.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: Eric18T on June 08, 2005, 05:48:47 PM
i edited my post above. call turner motorsports, i think they are a master distibuter.
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: TurboDub on June 08, 2005, 11:41:35 PM
That Supersprint setup is gorgeous! but yeah -damn expensive too.  8O

My buddy has a Remus setup on his 3 series, it sounds AWESOME! ...but it was pricey too.

I have been looking at this G2 Euro system from Greddy.

http://www.apexr1.com/vw1.html

Straight Through Complete Bolt-On Cat-Back System
Mandrel Bent 60mm Piping
High Polish Stainless Steel Oval Muffler
Sound Tested & Emissions Compliant
135mm x 75mm Embossed Tip(s)
Three Year Warranty
HP & Torque: 5 HP/ 5 ft lbs Torque

I have seen really positive posts about it on Vortex. There were sound clips on there at one point but I can't seem to find them now.  :roll: It was a nice deep sound with no buzz or droning as far as I could tell. I also like the fat but understated tip and stainless construction. $509+ship seems pretty reasonable from a company with a quality, though "ricey" rep like Greddy. Anyone have this setup on their dub?

BTW those All-Road sounds clips were cool as hell- thanks gragravar!
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: evil_O on June 09, 2005, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: "Eric18T"
i edited my post above. call turner motorsports, i think they are a master distibuter.


Thanks... I will see what I can find out.  

This beast is a hard one to find an exhaust for.  Like I said earlier, some know this combination is out there but they are not going to build anything for it since there are not a lot of them  :evil:
Title: Exhaust - Let me know if I am off my rocker....
Post by: BHase on June 09, 2005, 12:52:14 PM
I've always been happy with my Stebro. http://www.stebro.net.  I know they don't offer anything outright for your car, but they do say on their website, in large letter (or they used to) that they welcome custom setups.  Maybe you could give them a call if nobody else is interested in customizing something for you?  They're in Canada, so things sometimes take their time. Their customer service also hasn't been too good for some people.

Ben