Rocky Mountain Club B5

Discussion Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: jfrahm on July 13, 2005, 04:06:08 PM

Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 13, 2005, 04:06:08 PM
I'm still kicking around the idea of geting a different daily driver.

The smart thing for me to do is to probably sell my Passat and get a sub $10K used AWD wagon.  that would get me the all-weather capability of the Passat 4motion with a wagon back, and save on taxes, insurance and car payments.

One trouble spot is that the new car deals make selling a used car with 7K miles on it probably not worth doing.

Assuming that could be done, I could then search for a good AWD wagon in decent shape.  Cars that come to mind are:

Audi A6 2.8 Quattro (Generally $8-10K in OK shape with 100K miles)
I do not know how well the auto trans holds up on these, or if they can be found with a five speed.

Subaru Outback, about the same price, less power?  With the winter package you get a rear LSD.

Volvo?  I do not know if their AWD stuff is cheap enough yet.

I could also go older and cheaper.  Outbacks with a zillion miles on them can be had for $5k ish.  There are also some Audi 100/200 or 5000 wagons out there but those might be too troublesome.

Any other suggestions?
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: 03Indigo on July 13, 2005, 04:43:45 PM
how often do you really need all wheel drive in the denver metro area?  I can only think of 3 to 5 times a year where it really makes a difference over a front wheel drive car with good tires.

The money lost on the new car is not saving money....it will only look like saving money.  Again, I will hold my ground and say...stick with what you got, and just enjoy it.  If you are really wanting to save money, sell a porsche ;)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Spicoli on July 13, 2005, 07:22:31 PM
I just saw a W8 wagon on the way home.  I didn't knwo they made them in wagons... it was a hot car.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 13, 2005, 09:14:03 PM
older A6s; previous body style, they would be stupid cheap now - but will have tons of miles. This would be a 95 or 96.

Old suby wagons are everywhere - not much power but the 2.5GTs are decent. Good luck finding one in a wagon!

Volvo does have older AWD cars, the 870 comes to mind, but most were not AWD. There was an 'R' variant, but again, good luck finding one.

Or you could go A4 wagon. There would be plenty of older 2.8s around in your price range i bet, years 96-98 or 99 depending on mileage.

HTH
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 13, 2005, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: "Spicoli"
I just saw a W8 wagon on the way home.  I didn't knwo they made them in wagons... it was a hot car.


Like this maybe? ;) yeah, total hotness.
(http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/23101/01.jpg)

(edit: replaced pic coz other one broke.)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Colorado_Baja on July 13, 2005, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: "hotani"
Quote from: "Spicoli"
I just saw a W8 wagon on the way home.  I didn't knwo they made them in wagons... it was a hot car.


Like this maybe? ;) yeah, total hotness.
(http://members.tripod.com/a4vwpage/w8_wagon1.jpg)


They had one that color with a six speed at Huberger for a while.

Just step up to total baller satus and get your self a V70R
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Spicoli on July 13, 2005, 10:03:25 PM
Quote from: "hotani"
Like this maybe? ;) yeah, total hotness.
(http://members.tripod.com/a4vwpage/w8_wagon1.jpg)


Yes, but it was silver, or maybe Jason's color.  But yes, pure hotness.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 13, 2005, 10:10:16 PM
I don't *NEED* AWD but I really like having it.  I've had an AWD or full-time capable 4wd in the fleet for the last 13 years.  I love being able to get around in all kinds of bad weather.   FWD does not compare.

-Joel.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jayryan on July 14, 2005, 05:59:36 AM
Quote from: "blueGOLFturbo"
Just step up to total baller satus and get your self a V70R


Awwwwww.....yeah. I'm not even gonna get started on the S60R :twisted:

You also might want to look at the 850R which is a wagon, but stupid fast. I've read some wicked cool stuff about that car in the past.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jayryan on July 14, 2005, 06:21:42 AM
Uh, just found by accident in CO!  8O It was posted up last month on S60R.net:

Due to recent extended unimployment must sell our "baby"... 2004 V70R wagon - 1847 miles - mint - Navigation, Dual Power Seats, Premium Sound - Charcoal with blue leather, loaded and hasn't had first regular oil change - $38500

Colorado -

data2@mesanetworks.net

Lin
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 14, 2005, 07:18:11 AM
The V70R is cool, but it'd represent too much of my disposable income.  I have looked at some 20v S6 Avants in the papers and ebay.  Neat cars but a bit expensive for a somewhat troublesome high mileage wagon.  The performance of the Passat is fine for a daily driver, less would be acceptable.    I have thought about an A6 4.2 or 2.7T, the 2.7T can be had for $12K - $14K but I think it'd be a bit hard to live with as an older higher-mileage car.  If I found one with bad turbos for a bargain I could see dropping the motor and sorting it out.  The 4.2 I expect is a pretty dependable lump but the initial cost is still quite high.  Once the outlay for the wagon gets high the economics of switching cars does not look as good.

One possibility is a new car, the trade-in on my Passat is very high ($21K in 'good' condition, and it's only got 7K miles on it.)  I don't know if I could sell it for $20k.  There is a similar car to mine that has been in the paper for a while now from a private owner at $19,9K.  I'd have to get about $20K for my car for this to make sense.  If I got a bit more luxury and utility out of my new car the monthly payment would be easier to deal with.  Plus there are some low APR deals which would help.

If nothing else it's fun to look.
-Joel.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: evil_O on July 14, 2005, 07:21:05 AM
Quote from: "jfrahm"

If nothing else it's fun to look.
-Joel.


Now THAT is just the kind of thing that always gets me in trouble.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 14, 2005, 07:25:59 AM
Quote from: "jfrahm"
I have looked at some 20v S6 Avants in the papers and ebay.  Neat cars but a bit expensive for a somewhat troublesome high mileage wagon.

Exactly. That's the first thing I thought of but knew it was out of the range you wanted to stay in for your wagon. Those cars were only made in 1995 (there is a 1995.5 version too), have great power, awesome mod potential but are so rare the prices have stayed well above 10k.

And yeah, looking gets you into trouble. ;)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 14, 2005, 08:47:18 AM
You can get the A6 2.8 (30-valve) with a 5-speed manual, but they are excruciatingly difficult to find.  Comparable to trying to find an A6 2.7T or an A4 2.8 5-speed.  The engine is great...the Tiptronic has some problems. I'd go 5-speed (wait, I already did).

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Colorado_Baja on July 14, 2005, 11:07:36 AM
Quote from: "jayryan"
Quote from: "blueGOLFturbo"
Just step up to total baller satus and get your self a V70R


Awwwwww.....yeah. I'm not even gonna get started on the S60R :twisted:


Oh man, I get to see an S60R about 2 or 3 times a week, this lady that works two doors down from us has a silver one. I smile and wave but she just looks at me like im retarded. :roll:

EDIT: Sometimes their is a RS6 on BBS CH's that is parked down thier next to it, I think that dood owns the building, dont see him very much.

Hot hot cars every where.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: ianacole on July 14, 2005, 11:43:42 AM
There was one for sale (green) on our drive up 285 this past weekend...if I remember correctly it was $8600...
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jayryan on July 14, 2005, 05:07:30 PM
Quote from: "ianacole"
There was one for sale (green) on our drive up 285 this past weekend...if I remember correctly it was $8600...


WHAT?! An S60R for $8600?? Damn, where? I"m gonna get it :lol:

That can't be right. They've only been out since what? '02, 03? Even those used are going for over $20K
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Vanimaniac on July 15, 2005, 10:59:23 PM
Did someone say AWD wagon???  :P

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Vanimaniac/My%20Car%20Pics/Burnout.jpg)

You won't regret getting a B6 Wagon!! I sure don't!!

Van
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Vanimaniac on July 15, 2005, 11:34:05 PM
Seriously though.
How bout:

Late 80's Honda Civic AWD wagon.
(http://users.bestweb.net/~ktl/87hon.jpg)
This particular one is for sale at under $1000!

For a little class and some SERIOUS room:
Late 90's Mercedes Benz Eclass wagon 4-matic
(http://carad.ebayimg.com/i15/04/a/04/4c/19/fc_1.JPG)
Here's one on ebay for 12 grand.
[web]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONE-OWNER-THIRD-SEAT-CLEAN-CAR-FAX-CERT_W0QQitemZ4562272219QQcategoryZ6335QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/web]

And lastly, one of my favorite cars of all time:
Mid 80's AMC Eagle 4x4
(http://home.astrakan.hig.se/thojo/eagle/eagle9.jpg)
I'd rock one of these in a heartbeat!

Van
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: ianacole on July 16, 2005, 06:44:48 PM
Quote from: "jayryan"
Quote from: "ianacole"
There was one for sale (green) on our drive up 285 this past weekend...if I remember correctly it was $8600...


WHAT?! An S60R for $8600?? Damn, where? I"m gonna get it :lol:

That can't be right. They've only been out since what? '02, 03? Even those used are going for over $20K


No, sorry, I shold have been clearer.  It was and Audi...96 or 98, if I remember correctly.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 17, 2005, 08:56:41 PM
I think I remember the one. Dark green. Looked decent enough from the outside, but that's judging from a "flyby," as I will term any passing we did during the drive.

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: TurboDub on July 17, 2005, 11:27:53 PM
Quote from: "Vanimaniac"
Did someone say AWD wagon???  :P

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Vanimaniac/My%20Car%20Pics/Burnout.jpg)

You won't regret getting a B6 Wagon!! I sure don't!!

Van


Holy crap I'd get outta the way of that thing 8O

540i mmm

(http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/9386/bimmer8ov.th.jpg) (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bimmer8ov.jpg)

or I like the wagon version of these too...  :twisted:  

(http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/7079/850r6mp.th.jpg) (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=850r6mp.jpg)

Of course if it HAS to be AWD... :twisted:  :evil:  8)

(http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/643/audis40hw.th.jpg) (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=audis40hw.jpg)

Okay so i'm way off base on the pricing target of this original thread ...sorry bout that. But seriously, my 97 Outback went 140k worry free...though it ain't exactly sexy, it's definitely a good car for daily driving

(http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/8702/outback2ez.th.jpg) (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=outback2ez.jpg)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 18, 2005, 06:08:22 PM
Overcome by the media barrage pimping the leftover 05 cars, I went and looked at new Subies today.  Impressive.  I'd seen Jeremy's 2.5GT Wagon at a coffee meet, very shap car.  Tasteful and understated.  I drove an Outback XT, 2.5l turbo 5 speed.  I think it's the same as a GT but with more ground clearance.  I was very impressed with the engine and trans, it's got plenty of low end torque and a good top-end rush.  Easy to shift, good clutch.  Easier to drive in traffic than the Passat 1.8T, unless you slip the clutch a lot in the Passat.  More road noise than the Passat.  Less front interior room (at least width-wise) the Passat has a more open feel.  The Outback has a lot more gound clearance and I do not know how handy that would be.   The GT is better looking and perhaps somewhat cheaper.

The gauges on the Subie are easier to read but a bit too stylish.  The stereo, well it's kinda plasticy, like a cheap portable radio.  Since it has a six disc in-dash changer I wonder if there is an easy way to connect a portable without resorting to an RF link.  It's integrated into the dash in a way that makes it look hard to replace.  

The Passat interior is generally more pleasing, and I think the Subie will have a mode dated appearance sooner.

I was tired of dealing with the salesdroids so I did not drive the GT wagon.  It might have too sporty a ride for my wants.

Bottom Line?  Neat car but I do not know if I'd pay what I'd have to in order to make the deal.   I was really impressed with the motor and it is a sharp looking car.  My first impression is that it's not desireable enough to warrant the additional cost and the cost of changing cars.

Another new car does seem like a longshot, but all the ads for cheap new cars were getting to me.   Sadly the deals on new cars probably also make the Passat hard to get the money out of.  It'd be interesting to see what a trade offer would be.  Too bad the cars I would be excited enough to go out and buy new are big piles of money.  I might consider a newish used car with low mileage and an extended warranty.

-Joel.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 19, 2005, 08:10:28 AM
Don't forget that GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all doing employee pricing programs now.  I don't know how many wagons are still available from those carmakers.  I know there's at the least the Dodge Magnum, which I think is pretty cool.  You wouldn't necessarily have to get an R/T Hemi version.  Umm...GM builds that Malibu Maxx, but that's not really a wagon so much as a strange variation on a 4-door hatchback.  I don't know about Ford...do they still do Taurus station wagons, or is that done?

And is it just me, or is nobody else that excited about the Ford and GM car line-ups either?  

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 19, 2005, 08:44:21 AM
ewww, no dodge magnum please - that thing is fuuuuuuuuuugly!!! :P

Speaking of GM discounts... at the risk of sounding like a skipping CD... the saabaru Aero is going for <$20k. 8O - that's a WRX with the Saab fixins, I'd check it out if I were shopping right now.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 19, 2005, 08:49:30 AM
Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW.

Sorry, I had to compensate for all the times "Subaru" or the like has been said on this thread.  :?

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: evil_O on July 19, 2005, 08:52:21 AM
Quote from: "BHase"
Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW.

Sorry, I had to compensate for all the times "Subaru" or the like has been said on this thread.  :?

Ben


rotflmao..... that is funny...

I wonder why it/they have been mentioned soooo many times?   :wink:
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 19, 2005, 08:58:48 AM
Quote from: "evil_O"
Quote from: "BHase"
Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW, Audi, VW.

Sorry, I had to compensate for all the times "Subaru" or the like has been said on this thread.  :?

Ben


rotflmao..... that is funny...

I wonder why it/they have been mentioned soooo many times?   :wink:


Some sort of highly contagious, infectious Japanese disease?  :D

Well, it could be worse...we could be chanting, "Hyundai, Hyundai, Hyundai".  

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 19, 2005, 08:59:47 AM
Before I got the Passat I drove a Malibu Maxx.  I got lured in 'cause they had them in the paper for $14.5K.  Naturally they told me on the phone they still had the $14.5K ad car, but when I got there it was the first one on the board as sold.  It sold right when they opened.  I had been looking at Saab 9-3's and the Malibu is the same platform, and supposedly the wagon version was going to be made into a 9-3 wagon in a year or two.  The car is OK, kinda basic.  Good power (200HP V6) but in a loud, buzzy, cheap-sounding way.  No AWD option.  I asked about buying one at the ad price (they have 4-5 more identical to the ad car down to color and options) but they said it had to be $16,500.  I did not care to pay $2000 more than a guy who bought the same car a couple hours ago paid.  How does that sales technique ever work?  "I've got the deal for you.  Same car, but $2000 more!  Sound good?"

I'm still holding on to AWD though.  I enjoy it too much.
Maybe in a year or so I'll get a used A6 4.2 if they hold up OK.  The 2.7T would be fun but I'd probably have to plan for more repairs.

-Joel.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 19, 2005, 08:59:55 AM
Well I'm sure if all of us had unlimited resources we'd be driving S4s,  RS6s and S8s! But, uh.... we don't. :(

I've had my B6 S4 avant picked out for a couple years now, just waiting for that $50k check to show up... and waiting... and waiting... :P

Did I mention the saabaru? oh, i did... nevermind.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 19, 2005, 09:03:25 AM
Quote from: "jfrahm"

Maybe in a year or so I'll get a used A6 4.2 if they hold up OK.  The 2.7T would be fun but I'd probably have to plan for more repairs.

-Joel.


Hahaha - I've had the 4.2 in my sights for a while, and in 5 or 6 years when its time to retire the A4 maybe I'll be able to afford it or better yet, a 10-year-old S6! :mrgreen:
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: BHase on July 19, 2005, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: "jfrahm"
I'm still holding on to AWD though.  I enjoy it too much.
Maybe in a year or so I'll get a used A6 4.2 if they hold up OK.  The 2.7T would be fun but I'd probably have to plan for more repairs.

-Joel.


The A6 4.2 is an awesome car, though I'll admit I've always been disappointed in the lack of a manual transmission.  I love the 4.2 in the A6 (although I think in all of the last body styles (C5?) they were still belt-driven), even though there aren't a ton of tuning options as far as kits are concerned (there are audiworld.com folks who have customized supercharger kits).

As far as the 2.7T is concerned, is it really that problematic? I know that people are very concerned about blowing turbochargers, but I know several people who have or have had the engine in S4's, A6's, and allroads, and none have had problems...even into the 70,000 mile range.

Ben
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jfrahm on July 19, 2005, 09:06:01 AM
Good luck finding a 9-2x Aero, there are very few left and (or so I hear) none with manuals.  Yes they are tempting at $20K.

-Joel.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: hotani on July 19, 2005, 09:09:53 AM
A6 4.2 + auto = :) (hey, its a V8!)
saabaru + auto =  :evil: (holy turbo lag!)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: TurboDub on July 19, 2005, 09:48:00 AM
I checked out the Saabaru before I got my GT.  The sticker on the Saabaru was like 29k...I think the dealer quoted something like 21k??! BUT it's too small for me, and too much to insure IMO.

jfrahm adding an outside audio source to the stock radio is a pain in the a$$. And swapping headunits seems next to impossible.

Somehow Subaru decided that a 6 disc changer that does not let you shuffle 6 discs would be a good idea?? As far as I can tell it will only shuffle 1 disc at a time... :roll:

Of course a quick stomp on the gas makes me forget about some of the radio issues...  :twisted:
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jayryan on July 19, 2005, 10:13:59 AM
You should buy a Subaru, they are the perfect automobile and will bring world peace.
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: evil_O on July 19, 2005, 10:28:30 AM
Quote from: "jayryan"
You should buy a Subaru, they are the perfect automobile and will bring world peace.


is that animosity that I am feeling JR....?????


that is it.. no more fun for you...

o.. and you have a PM....
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: jayryan on July 19, 2005, 10:37:07 AM
ACB5= Asian Club B5
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: TurboDub on July 19, 2005, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: "jayryan"
You should buy a Subaru, they are the perfect automobile and will bring world peace.


>lights candle and incense<
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: 03Indigo on July 19, 2005, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: "jayryan"
You should buy a Subaru, they are the perfect automobile and will bring world peace.


I think someone is jealous ;)
Title: AWD wagons
Post by: Soar07 on September 24, 2005, 11:19:11 AM
Get the 1BB suspension that is mentioned in Passat World, and keep your Passat. It raises your car about 35mm. It would give your Passat clearance more like an Outback. Problem: Where to find it? I am looking for a source.

Plus consider that the taxes on a new car will probably cost 6 months of payments.