Rocky Mountain Club B5

Discussion Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: spencerjw on December 10, 2003, 09:56:40 PM

Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: spencerjw on December 10, 2003, 09:56:40 PM
Ok, ready to buy, what should I get and where should I go to get it?  I'm putting it in my Passat 1.8T.  In the past I have been a fan of KKM Filters (for Ford usually) and they've always been cones.  I had one in my Cougar (V6) and my wife has one in her Mountaineer (V8).

What's the best for performance?

Which is best for sound (of both engine and turbo)?
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: Wyaka on December 11, 2003, 08:24:24 AM
I tried the flat stock style from K&N, and didn't really notice any difference, and returned it after a week. Then I bought a cold air intake from LL Tek in canada, since they were the only people I could find that had one for my car at the time. From the get go I could hear and feel the difference, you can hear the turbo spool up and you can hear the intake suck air more freely, and the whoosh is really fricking loud. Performance wise I noticed an increase in gas mileage, the car pulled harder when driving aggressively. It's hard to tell exactly how much it did, but I definitely felt the difference. The only other small thing that will increase your performance is an exhaust system. I had mine completely taken out(you wouldn't believe the size of the resonator) from the cat backand replaced with 2.5" pipe and a performance muffler that was made for a muscle car because of the free air flow and you don't get the typical ricer high pitch whine, more of a low rumble until you really get on it then it gets louder, but not out of hand.
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: spencerjw on December 11, 2003, 08:28:07 AM
Thanks for the info.  How much would I be looking at spending on an intake?  The performance gains aren't really the driving factor for my mod, I want to hear the engine, the suck of the air and the turbo.

On my Cougar it had made a huge difference in sound as well as some in performance and I really miss that.

Any links would be much appreciated.
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: kraut-sled on December 11, 2003, 09:12:58 AM
I have the EVOlution CAI in my car.  I love it.  I noticed a difference right away adn the sound is great.  I had to fabricate a small breather valve for it, but it was really simple. 8)

I was talking to Matt (Black A4) and we are looking at fabricating system for the 1.8t.  Honestly I think it would be very easy to do and not too $$$.

As for the original question - CONE
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: Wyaka on December 11, 2003, 09:31:02 AM was the place I bought from, but they are really expensive as they are geared towards Audi's, it just happens that some of their stuff fits Passats. There are intakes that are alot less expensive, just do a search on clubb5, I think Carbonio makes one, but not sure. I would have loved to fabricate one, but I have a lack of equipment to do this, if you'd like to use mine for a begining idea feel free to use it, but its on the car. Doesn't look hard to do if you used aliminium tubing, which will resonate a little more that the ABS plastic mine is made of, the only thing that would be hard to fabricate would be the heat shield and welding the mounting plates to the intake itself. This is what it looks like installed. Kinda cool, but the top cover that goes over the airbox doesn't fit quite right. I paid around $300 for this..ouch, but I am very happy with it.
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: kraut-sled on December 11, 2003, 09:58:15 AM
It looks almost exactly like mine.  I paid $150 for it on eBay.  EVOlution sells them new for $260.00.

I am working on expanding the heat sheild on mine, and once I figure out how to do that I can make a template for production.  As for the filter and tubing, I think it will be quite simple.

BTW - Mine has a bend in it (the tube) the one I want to fabricate will be straight, so the cone will sit opposite of the way iT does now.[/url]
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: kt037 on December 11, 2003, 11:39:54 AM
stick with the flat panel, the engine bay of B5s doesn't allow the cone filter to be relocated out of the engine bay, which will alow more warm air into the intake... witch is bad/poor performance.

you wont gain acctual hp, but more sound and throttle responce due to less restriction.

now if you can find a way to relocate cone filter behind the bumper, or in the fender, then you will have a true CAI and gain more performance than one with just a heat shied.

another way would to make a heavily insulated and sealed heatsheild and run "ram-air" piping into the completly sealed compartment.

i have been looking into this, but i would first need an intake, before i made the heat shield. it would have to be very precise, and have match the hood, strut/spring tower and the rad support. my ideea was to use tw0 pieces of 6061 with heat shieling insulation in between them and on the turbo side of them.
unfortunatly i do not have the time or capabilities to  cut and shape aluminum.
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: Wyaka on December 11, 2003, 12:49:57 PM
It's a give and take with this system, you get some air from the engine bay which is warm but you also get fresh outside air being forced to the intake from the stock airbox intake tube mounted in the grill then routed directly to the filter. My only upgrade to this system would be a large custom intake tube to replace the stock one in order to force more fresh air into the intake compartment, the faster you go the more air is being forced into the intake. IMHO. The stock airbox with a K&N filter is the cheapest and safest way to go if you don't want to fight VW about warranty issues, mine is gone, so I'll take my chances, yours if I read right is still new. Both are really good ways to increase performance and throttle response, it just depends what you're going for.
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: ColoradoB5 on December 11, 2003, 03:52:56 PM
Until I find a CAI that will pull air from behind the bumper, the cone system is not the best way to go for me.  The stock airbox is actually pretty good.  

Lots of folks report some improvements with the CAI, but for $50, I just got the K&N.

The ones I have seen are over $200, which is a little too rich for me right now...

I would be interested in trying to design one though if anyone wants to try this, maybe we can market and sell it.  

On CB5, the was originally the Minnesota Airbox mod, then Boris improved it with the Colorado Airbox Mod, which included some additional inlets to the airbox.

The key for the CAI is heat shielding to prevent the cone from sucking in all of that heat from the engine, thereby spoiling the air charge going into the turbo for compression.

If we could figure a way to run some large pipes down to behind the bumper or something along those lines, this may be a big seller!
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: kraut-sled on December 11, 2003, 04:02:26 PM
I am in Dub.

You point out the exact reasons I want to fabricate one:

1. Make it a true CAI (or close)

2. CAPITALISM (now there would be some discounts to the rmcb5 gang)
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: 03Indigo on December 11, 2003, 05:26:02 PM
I voted for other...Britta...hehehe.  Only because I am in a punchy mood right now.

I think I agree with the others, unless you can do a true CAI, with housing separations from the engine pay...stick with a high flow flat panel, but watch how you recharge them if they are re-useable...too much oil can jack up your MAF....
Title: Filters - Cone vs. Flat vs. Other
Post by: FastLane on December 29, 2003, 09:53:05 PM
Winston is right. Most CAI designs are anything but, yet people swear by them as being some miraculous improvement over the stock system, which is a true CAI.

I'd be up for inventing some sort of system that can be marketable and actually work. I think a cone setup inside the stock box might, MIGHT have some merit.

But, most of the stock box mods, MAM and the CAM are the only ones making a real improvement. An intercooler vent is also something to consider.